NSW code of practice about to be released

[The_Geeza]

Ok so reading this and me maths not so good (tho I passed some form of maths exam last week) lol..... What is the min floor size for let's say a Stimson given that they put 0.15 m squared but this don't figure.... Help plz.... Like all I wanna know is say plastic tub size for an adult stimi as I'm making new enclosures and they going in a temporary rack ???
Ta
Pete

 

[saximus]

Ok so reading this and me maths not so good (tho I passed some form of maths exam last week) lol..... What is the min floor size for let's say a Stimson given that they put 0.15 m squared but this don't figure.... Help plz.... Like all I wanna know is say plastic tub size for an adult stimi as I'm making new enclosures and they going in a temporary rack ???
Ta
Pete

Have a look at Appendix B. It gives you a good starting point for measurements. You can have tubs different to those exact ones as long as you don't break any of the other requirements like not having any dimension shorter than 20% of the length of the snake.

 

[jacorin]

so by that sax,i cant turn this into an enclosure because the back wall is only 27cm across?????

other measurements are 117cm at widest spot,76cm at the front,60cm high

 

[saximus]

I've got a display enclosure almost identical to that as well . My understanding would be that it's ok because the back wall is not a restrictive dimension like the side of a typical box enclosure would be and the floor/wall space it provides is still enough for anything up to D. I guess the department geniuses would be the ones to ask for sure though

 

[The_Geeza]

Have a look at Appendix B. It gives you a good starting point for measurements. You can have tubs different to those exact ones as long as you don't break any of the other requirements like not having any dimension shorter than 20% of the length of the snake.

So basically a 1m stimi can easily live in a 44 lt tub of 55 x 40 x 30cm high ??

 

[thomasssss]

Pretty sure this would be the same as holding a firearms license, holding a license grants them the ability to demand seeing all firearms and storage at anytime without any notice or for any given reason. They do random checks here in SA all the time.
.

not entirely true not with the nsw system anyway , i have my residential address (where i live) but my fire arms are kept at a mates place where i shoot and that is my safe keeping address , for the police to check me they have to call me and allow me to arrange a time for them to check my firearms that its convenient to both me and the owner of the other property , and yes i have been checked and been through the process

to my understanding the old or current laws on reptile checks being undertaken in nsw was/is much the same as this , it had to be a convenient time for you , its not like they can just stroll in at any time but you can not flat out deny them entry either

edit , only had a quick look at the link provided but all i found on enclosure sizes was that it must not be any smaller than 20% of the snakes total length , and then a bunch of stuff about younger snakes being kept in smaller enclosures , it actually does seem quite reasonable or am i missing the part where it goes into more details i.e. species specific enclosure sizes whats all this talk to cat c and cat d animals ?

 

[cement]

Years ago I said this draft was a trojan horse..

Trojan horse for what?
There are that many keepers in NSW (and it will never happen) that even if the govt said 'righto, no more reptile keeping', they would be faced with major unrest.
I am still having trouble working out what the problem is, but all my stuff complies, so maybe thats it.
I wasn't part of the 'advisory committee' so I can look at this COP from an unbiased veiwpoint, and to be honest, it seems to me like they have done it in quite an ok manner. We were all given the chance to have input, they met with the experts and the COP really is only going to make life miserable for people who are mistreating their animals.
This reptile industry is a classic. On one hand, no one wants pet shops selling herps, but then they complain that you can't buy one in a shop, so the bill gets passed, with pretty tight restrictions too, and the govt thinks ok we need something here to try and make sure it fits with EVERYONE. The pet shop industry, the commercial breeders, the small breeders and the keepers of one animal. Would we rather no COP and be allowed to keep our animals like they do in third world countries?
Yeah theres a few bugs to iron out, but chill out, it's the govt, try running a building company, it makes this industry look like a picnic on a sunny day with pretty butterflies and daisies.

The only issue I have is that if you have a COP enforcable by law for native reptiles, then you should have one for cats and dogs.

 

[cement]

Another point, has anybody ever considered the resulting effect that a growing reptile industry would have?

Everyone is like 'yeah, expo's', 'yeah, teach the kids' etc,etc, breed and sell, make money, more people involved, cross breed, make more money. Pet shops have had massive growth in reptile products, with one shop I know of saying that herp related products have now taken over their major % of income. This means more products as the manufacturers jump on board to supply a booming growth, make more money.

The govt keeps an eye on this sort of stuff and the reptile pet industry is experiencing major growth. Its popped up on the radar and as such gets the same treatment as any other industry.They want their cut too! This is what happens, jump up and down all we like, but did we play a part in this?

 

[bk201]

All reptile products are over priced we are a major target for profiteering.


Most of the reptile products are useless, makes reptile keeping seem expensive and is just for profit...animal welfare is the last concern just check out the heat rock section...

 

[jacorin]

I've got a display enclosure almost identical to that as well . My understanding would be that it's ok because the back wall is not a restrictive dimension like the side of a typical box enclosure would be and the floor/wall space it provides is still enough for anything up to D. I guess the department geniuses would be the ones to ask for sure though

ok kool thx m8..... does yours have the shelving up the top,to give you 2 more areas?? was thinking about leaving that top shelf in and making it another cabinet???

 

[saximus]

ok kool thx m8..... does yours have the shelving up the top,to give you 2 more areas?? was thinking about leaving that top shelf in and making it another cabinet???

Mine has the shelf underneath and I just use it for storage and for the thermostat. I've heard of people cutting a hole and using it as a big hide but whatever suits you would work I suppose

 

[viciousred]

Probably asking a really stupid question but this is all doing my head in.

I have 2 roughly 7 to 8ft coastal carpet pythons. 20% of 200cm is 40cm .. right? and the minimum cage size is 0.62 squared.
so a roughly 4x2x2" enclosure each should be fine yeah?....

There minimum cage size seems tiny to me.. but i suck at maths so am probably wrong..?
but by there standards a 62x62 cube is big enough for an 8 foot carpet python?

I must be doing some calculation wrong here .. surely?

 

[Skeptic]

Probably asking a really stupid question but this is all doing my head in.

I have 2 roughly 7 to 8ft coastal carpet pythons. 20% of 200cm is 40cm .. right? and the minimum cage size is 0.62 squared.
so a roughly 4x2x2" enclosure each should be fine yeah?....

There minimum cage size seems tiny to me.. but i suck at maths so am probably wrong..?
but by there standards a 62x62 cube is big enough for an 8 foot carpet python?

I must be doing some calculation wrong here .. surely?

Your maths is wrong. 0.62m x 0.62m gives you 0.38m2

 

[wokka]

Here is an interesting statement:

The Office of Environment and Heritage (OEH) has compiled this code of practice in
good faith, exercising all due care and attention. No representation is made about the
accuracy, completeness or suitability of the information in this publication for any
particular purpose. OEH shall not be liable for any damage which may occur to any
person or organisation taking action or not on the basis of this publication. Readers
should seek appropriate advice when applying the information to their specific needs.
This document may be subject to revision without notice and readers should ensure
they are using the latest version.

If OEH demand licence holders follow the Code then OEH would be legally liable for the consequences- disclaimer or not!
You cant make someone do something and then not accept responsibility for the action

 

[wokka]

the cage sizes are not unreasonable at all, not to mention we've all known for years that this will be happening.

whats unreasonable about keeping a large (2.5m) python in a 1.25x,.5metre cage, (which would have a smaller floor space than a standard 4x2 foot enclosure)
its still on the small side imo.

id happiiy pay higher licenseng fees to make sure it is patrolled and adhered to.

Lets say it takes say two hours totravel check and document each licence holder at say $200 per hour including vehicle, wages and on costs. It could get expensive? How often should (or maybe must) they check the cages?

 

[Chris1]

Lets say it takes say two hours totravel check and document each licence holder at say $200 per hour including vehicle, wages and on costs. It could get expensive? How often should (or maybe must0 they check the cages?

random visits would keep people on their toes, people will spread the word when they've been visited. I wouldnt expect everyone with a license would even be visited with a 10 year period.
They would obviously need to put some thought into who they visit. eg. people with large collections, or people who acquire 50+ snakes in a 2 year period,.....plus the occasional smaller keeper

 

[thomasssss]

random visits would keep people on their toes, people will spread the word when they've been visited. I wouldnt expect everyone with a license would even be visited with a 10 year period.
They would obviously need to put some thought into who they visit. eg. people with large collections, or people who acquire 50+ snakes in a 2 year period,.....plus the occasional smaller keeper

so then they drive 2+ hours to find out that no ones home and they have to come back ? they cannot legally stroll into your home so you have to be there , under the old system(which may of changed but i doubt it) it also had to be a convenient time for you , so you could deny them entry if you where about to leave for work etc , random checks , good in theory but hard to implement ( with out loosing the element of surprise anyway )

 

[Ramsayi]

random visits would keep people on their toes, people will spread the word when they've been visited. I wouldnt expect everyone with a license would even be visited with a 10 year period.
They would obviously need to put some thought into who they visit. eg. people with large collections, or people who acquire 50+ snakes in a 2 year period,.....plus the occasional smaller keeper

Wonder how many of these random visits they would do per day to get around to everyone in a 10 year period? How many people would have no problem with them moving from one collection to another? They would even make a mockery of their quarantine guidelines.

 

[Chris1]

i said i WOULDNT expect them to get around to visiting everyone in a 10 year period.

why dont you ask them how they intend to do it, i didnt make the rules and im not in a position to enforce them, all i said was that i think its a good idea that there are some minimum enforceable standards,....

 

[Ramsayi]

i said i WOULDNT expect them to get around to visiting everyone in a 10 year period.

why dont you ask them how they intend to do it, i didnt make the rules and im not in a position to enforce them, all i said was that i think its a good idea that there are some minimum enforceable standards,....

The fact is if they did more than one per day a lot of people would be livid having their quarantine protocols placed at risk.The very idea of them coming out to check on keepers is bad enough.Bloody nanny state at its best.
Maybe people who think its a good idea could invite them around for a coffee and a check of their bookwork and collections and get back to everyone about how it went.