NSW code of practice about to be released

[T0ken]

And everyone can kiss keeping snakes in tub racks goodbye by the look of it.

It dosn't exclude people from still using racks. It will however make people think about the size racks they use.

A "Vision" python rack can accommodate up to a category D python.
however it does eliminate the species classed as climbing.

I don't use racks so not affected, however I don't believe this will stop people from using them.

a 4x2x2 really is the new minimum for alot of pythons.

 

[Zipidee]

How would they even enforce cage sizes anyway? Officials going around to every license keeper in the state?

I would imagine they will need some sort of warrant to enter your premises? I guess they could always cancel your licence if you fail to comply with requests? Not sure of the legality of that one. In any case, I'll be making them cross every single "t" and dot every single "i". I worked in Federal law enforcement for 15 years and if I ever have any dealings with these people, they'll be doing it 100% by the book. And like I said earlier, my set up complies. However, as others have said, I'll bet they go for keepers with larger collections. And it might all be too hard and no one will be audited. But guys, do your homework. We have a year. Make sure you understand your rights and find out what they must do to enter your premises and check your compliance.

 

[saximus]

A "Vision" python rack can accommodate up to a category D python.
however it does eliminate the species classed as climbing.

It doesn't eliminate them. It says that, for climbing species, the minimum measurements can be floor or wall area.

 

[Varanoidea]

I'm at school so I don't have the time to read the code thoroughly, how does it affect breeders?

 

[Zipidee]

I'm at school so I don't have the time to read the code thoroughly, how does it affect breeders?

In a nut shell, breeders have to comply with the provisions of their licence (this won't change) and will have to adhere to the Guidelines in the Code for keeping their animals. It's only 30 odd pages. Read it over Easter or the school holidays. You've got a whole year.

 

[Ramsayi]

It is the thin edge of the wedge,giving them even more power to dictate to keepers who up until now were complying with their license conditions.

Cage sizes may be reasonable but that is not the point,the mere fact that they can now run a tape measure over an enclosure and seize an animal if the tape shows even 1 cm less than the rule.


I wonder why they didn't go after bird keepers after all keeping cockatoos etc in those small wire cages can't be good for them given that they use a lot more territory in the wild than any reptile ever would and are very intelligent animals compared to reptiles.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

It should be remembered that these regulations were introduced on the basis of there being some undefined problem with the way keepers were managing their animals. Despite numerous requests for an indication of where there is a problem, In the vast majority of cases, there is no problem at all - most keepers have up to a few animals and if anything, go overboard in terms of the space required. Those with large collections confine their animals for a number of very good reasons - space requirements, ease of heating and management, ease of cleaning to name a few (all of these add up to good husbandry, especially for animals that spend large parts of their lives in very confined spaces under rocks and logs...).

Before some of you get all starry eyed about how much more wonderful it will be for the reptiles of NSW, take a moment to think about who produces a large number of these animals for the pet trade, and those who must of necessity manage large collections, such as Taronga and the Reptile Park - can the ARP afford to build new facilities for the large number of vens it has to maintain for venom production? Will trying to wrestle a 2 or 3 metre King Brown or Taipan out of a large, spacious enclosure increase the risks to the employees of that establishment. As soon as you take control of these fundamental matters out of the hands of the people who actually work with these dangerous animals, and place it into the hands of idealogically-driven bureaucrats, problems will arise.

As far as solving the problem of illegal collecting, it will be about as effective as the GST was at stamping out the "black economy," and we all know what a game-changer that was !

Jamie

 

[Snowman]

I wonder why they didn't go after bird keepers after all keeping cockatoos etc in those small wire cages can't be good for them given that they use a lot more territory in the wild than any reptile ever would and are very intelligent animals compared to reptiles.

i guess they aren't trying to reduce the number of birds people keep. No doubt the minimum size enclosures for reptiles is supposed to have a limiting effect on how many reptiles you can keep in NSW.
Is there any group or society going to challenge this in court or something?

 

[Bushfire]

It doesn't eliminate them. It says that, for climbing species, the minimum measurements can be floor or wall area.

I suppose it will depend on how an authorised officer intrprets this standard:


4.1.1.3 An enclosure housing a species that normally climbs (see Appendix A)
must have sufficient useable vertical space for the reptile to climb.

 

[skittles85]

I would imagine they will need some sort of warrant to enter your premises? I guess they could always cancel your licence if you fail to comply with requests? Not sure of the legality of that one. In any case, I'll be making them cross every single "t" and dot every single "i". I worked in Federal law enforcement for 15 years and if I ever have any dealings with these people, they'll be doing it 100% by the book. And like I said earlier, my set up complies. However, as others have said, I'll bet they go for keepers with larger collections. And it might all be too hard and no one will be audited. But guys, do your homework. We have a year. Make sure you understand your rights and find out what they must do to enter your premises and check your compliance.

Pretty sure this would be the same as holding a firearms license, holding a license grants them the ability to demand seeing all firearms and storage at anytime without any notice or for any given reason. They do random checks here in SA all the time.

There would be some sort of clause in the fine print of having a reptile license that would grant any National Parks and Wildlife etc to be able to do the same thing in checking on reptiles i would imagine.

 

[FAY]

From what I have heard, not sure how true, they had heaps of meetings with persons that actually kept reptiles and actually know what they are talking about, that all went out the window and they got directions from the DPI who wouldn't know one end of a shingleback from the other.

 

[mummabear]

i think its great news!!

some people obviously need to be told that its not right to keep big snakes in tiny storage boxes, some of those rack threads make me feel sick!!

hopefully other states wont be too far behind.

I hope you keep water bowls in all you gecko enclosures Chris. Despite them not needing it or drinking from them you can be prosecuted for not providing them.

 

[Ramsayi]

I hope you keep water bowls in all you gecko enclosures Chris. Despite them not needing it or drinking from them you can be prosecuted for not providing them.

Thanks for reminding me.I'm now going to give my shinglebacks nice big bowls of clean cool water.

 

[Ramsayi]

Anyone want to work out enclosure size for 4 ackies for me?

 

[mummabear]

They don't have the resources to in force this..... Queensland has had min cage requirements for years and no one follows them

Yes, but QLD's are guidelines. NSW has enforceable standards by which you can be prosecuted if you do not comply.

 

[Varanoidea]

Yes, but QLD's are guidelines. NSW has enforceable standards by which you can be prosecuted if you do not comply.

Still I doubt the people that have a couple of geckos and a python a few centimetres under the minimum will be in much danger. It will be people with big collections that they will target.

 

[Bushfire]

Anyone want to work out enclosure size for 4 ackies for me?

1.86m2 or 1.86m x 1m is the min

 

[Wing_Nut]

It should be remembered that these regulations were introduced on the basis of there being some undefined problem with the way keepers were managing their animals. Despite numerous requests for an indication of where there is a problem, In the vast majority of cases, there is no problem at all - most keepers have up to a few animals and if anything, go overboard in terms of the space required. Those with large collections confine their animals for a number of very good reasons - space requirements, ease of heating and management, ease of cleaning to name a few (all of these add up to good husbandry, especially for animals that spend large parts of their lives in very confined spaces under rocks and logs...).

Before some of you get all starry eyed about how much more wonderful it will be for the reptiles of NSW, take a moment to think about who produces a large number of these animals for the pet trade, and those who must of necessity manage large collections, such as Taronga and the Reptile Park - can the ARP afford to build new facilities for the large number of vens it has to maintain for venom production? Will trying to wrestle a 2 or 3 metre King Brown or Taipan out of a large, spacious enclosure increase the risks to the employees of that establishment. As soon as you take control of these fundamental matters out of the hands of the people who actually work with these dangerous animals, and place it into the hands of idealogically-driven bureaucrats, problems will arise.

As far as solving the problem of illegal collecting, it will be about as effective as the GST was at stamping out the "black economy," and we all know what a game-changer that was !

Jamie

Reptiles held for scientific purpose are not subject to the code. Wouldn't venom production fit into this category?

Wing_Nut

 

[Cold-B-Hearts]

Yes, but QLD's are guidelines. NSW has enforceable standards by which you can be prosecuted if you do not comply.

how can they enforce it. In Qld if you hand in your movement advice 3 months late they don't care. it seems like 5 people are running QLDs licensing system. Dont know what the authorities are like down there.

 

[MyMitchie]

What really annoyed me was their use of dangerously in front of the word venomous. Like come on? Venomous basically means dangerous. The way they have worded it sounds like they are meaning that only dangerous venomous snakes need to comply which is untrue as all venomous have the capacity to be dangerous. To me it's made them look a bit stupid.