Orange Pepper

Discussion in 'Australian Snakes' started by Variety, Aug 23, 2013.

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  1. BARRAMUNDI

    BARRAMUNDI Well-Known Member

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    There is a lot of confusion on this topic, hopefully this will clear up some of the confusion.........

    Orange Peppers are not hypo jags.

    Orange Peppers are CARAMEL JAGS, Orange Pepper (OP) is just a label SXR put on them.

    HYPO'S and CARAMELS are very different. CARAMELS are co-dom. Hypos are polygenic. Although they do look similar, they are very different.

    Also CARAMELS originated in pure standard coastals and do not have any potential of carrying neuro. Only the JAG gene has the potential to throw neuro.

    When a CARAMEL is mixed with a JAG the result is you can produce a percentage of CARAMEL JAGs or OPs.

    Here is a pic of a CARAMEL COASTAL (not jag) as you can see very different to a HYPO COASTAL.
     

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    Last edited: Aug 24, 2013
  2. TrueBlue

    TrueBlue Very Well-Known Member

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    all jags carry and will show neuro symptoms sooner or later, no matter what the breeders will tell you, its part of the gene. In most cases it takes a few months or even years to show its ugly head, so that breeders can sell off their animals before it develops.
     
  3. saximus

    saximus Almost Legendary

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    Barramundi this is from Designer Serpents website:
    "The Caramel Coastal carpet pythons are a form of Hypomelanistic snake.
    These pythons follow a co – dominant mode of inheritance."

    I know it's different to something like bredli but it's not completely wrong to describe it as hypo is it?
     
  4. champagne

    champagne Well-Known Member

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    Yes all jags have neuro problems, it's connected with the genes that reduce pattern and can't be bred out but Most jag neuro symptoms are so small that they go unnoticed. Less then 5% of jags have a server neuro issues which are very noticeable at birth and most are culled but they defiantly don't all cork screw and you won't wake up one day and have a snake cork screwing all over its enclosure unable to feed itself, like some people would lead you to believe

    I think Ben knows what he is talking about when it comes to op jags, having produced some of the best in Australia.... The thing he was saying is a caramel is co Dom and yes they are "hypo" (reduced black) but they often get confused with hypo coastals like robs which aren't co Dom they are polymorphic like hypo Bredli and designer serpent has also crossed robs hypos with Simons caramel, which has produced some stunning results
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2013
  5. TrueBlue

    TrueBlue Very Well-Known Member

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    btsmorphs, I dont know where you get your info from but designer serpents have NOT crossed my hypos with caramels because they dont have any of my line of hypos.
     
  6. SamNabz

    SamNabz Very Well-Known Member

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    Less than 5%? Lmfao. I'd love to know where you got this figure from, mate. Did you conduct some research? If so, please enlighten us on how you came up with this figure and what sort of testing was conducted. Some of your great and extremely accurate research papers would be great also.

    I look forward to your detailed response.

    Cheers, Sam
     
  7. champagne

    champagne Well-Known Member

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    Best mate brought a hypo pair from them that is from your line.
     
  8. champagne

    champagne Well-Known Member

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    talk the morph breeders that have worked with large number of jags.... Yes less then 5% of jags have major neuro problems and have to be culled... This is purely my opinion based on my experiences from what I have seen first hand. If I'm wrong in your experience what is the % that have major problems? Facts not fiction...
     
  9. andynic07

    andynic07 Very Well-Known Member

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    The problem that we have is the two sides are so polarised that a common ground cannot be reached where objective research can be carried out over a large number for the lifetime of the group being tested.
     
  10. Ramsayi

    Ramsayi Very Well-Known Member APS Veteran

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    I know one of the first jag breeders ended up getting out of them because he didn't like what he was seeing.
     
  11. champagne

    champagne Well-Known Member

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    And that is the reason I won't own or breed jags, what I have seen the number of that cork screw are low but it is quiet distressing seeing a hatchling that can't control it's own movements and knowing that you caused it.... I couldn't handle that
     
  12. Ramsayi

    Ramsayi Very Well-Known Member APS Veteran

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    And that is what gets me about the whole jag issue.Anyone who claims to have a love of reptiles cannot justify breeding jags no matter what some look like.It is all down to the dollar.The people who buy them do nothing but allow the problem to exist as well.
     
  13. thomasssss

    thomasssss Very Well-Known Member

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    my god im a terrible person who clearly cannot have a real fascination/love for reptiles because i bought a jag despite the fact that i have other everyday wild type reps that i value just as much , .... but no i clearly do not care for them at all now i own a jag :rolleyes:
     
  14. Ramsayi

    Ramsayi Very Well-Known Member APS Veteran

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    Did you care that others in the clutch may have had to be euthed because of neuro issues? I guess as long as the one you got seems ok then that is all that matters eh? :facepalm: Or is ignorance is bliss?
     
  15. No-two

    No-two Very Well-Known Member

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    Admitting it is the first step...

    Jag breeders always trying to talk down the neuro only seems to happen in Australia.
     
  16. champagne

    champagne Well-Known Member

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    Even tho the numbers are low when you see a perfect little hatchling cork screwing out of control unable to hold its head up straight it is very distressing and when you do see that in person for the first time I think you would change your opinion on the matter... In saying that some of the jags getting around are gorgeous and if other snakes didn't have to suffer to get those ones, I would happily own some.
     
  17. SamNabz

    SamNabz Very Well-Known Member

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    I never gave any sort of figure, or pretended to know what percentage of ALL jags in Australia show signs of neuro, so I have absolutely no reason to provide an answer in that sense. You, on the other hand, did. However, thanks for your very detailed response. I now fully understand where you got that figure from. Well done!

    P.s that was sarcasm... In case you didn't realise.

    Cheers, Sam
     
  18. Ramsayi

    Ramsayi Very Well-Known Member APS Veteran

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    I don't think anyone except the breeders would really know what % are affected.I also think that the numbers with problems would tend to be understated as well.
     
  19. Wing_Nut

    Wing_Nut Well-Known Member

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    And to think, all this could have been avoided if these animals were not illegally bought into this country in the first place. With greed so prevalent within the hobby we only have ourselves to blame for the mess that exists today. Neuro issues with these animals really is only the tip of the iceberg when you consider the irreparable damage caused to the future of the hobby in this country by them simply being here at all. There existence and continued divisions they cause both inside and out of the hobby is and will be like a cancer. Greed is a terrible thing, and it's not surprising so much damage has come from it.

    Wing_Nut
     
  20. TrueBlue

    TrueBlue Very Well-Known Member

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    btsmorphs, Well your best mate got ripped off and told porkies then didnt he. Because the animals that he brought were not from the line of hypos that Im breeding.
     
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