Proposed New QLD license system!

Discussion in 'Reptile News' started by Herptology, Jun 26, 2020.

  1. Herptology

    Herptology Well-Known Member

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    https://www.qld.gov.au/environment/...rmits/framework-review/animal-licence-options
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    Overview of proposed new licence allowances
    Standard licence:
    • Cost for five (5) years is $59.20
    • Up to 10 Class 1 animals
    • Class 2 animals not permitted
    • Breeding is not permitted
    • Trading is restricted within six (6) months of acquisition
    • Online record keeping (replaces hardcopy movement advice)
    • Dangerous snakes not permitted
    Specialised licence:
    • Cost for five (5) years is $316.90
    • Up to 50 Class 1 and 2 amphibians, birds, and reptiles permitted at any given time and unlimited protected scorpions and spiders.
    • Breeding permitted within animal limit
    • Trading restricted within six (6) months of acquisition
    • Online record keeping (replaces hardcopy movement advice)
    • New dangerous snake conditions apply
    Advanced licence:
    • Cost for five (5) years is $682.90
    • Unlimited Class 1 animals
    • Unlimited Class 2 animals with an exception of maximum of 50 permitted dangerous snakes
    • Breeding permitted
    • No restrictions on trading
    • Online record keeping (replaces hardcopy movement advice)
    • New dangerous snake conditions apply
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
  2. WizardFromAus-

    WizardFromAus- Active Member

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    Bit exy

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
     
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  3. Sdaji

    Sdaji APS Veteran APS Veteran

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    Absolutely insane. It was either drawn up with complete and utter incompetence by a deranged earthworm, or it's an ill-conceived attempt to discourage smaller keepers from breeding and let the big breeders hold the market, but either way it's a huge lose-lose-lose (keepers, regulators and animals) deal with no winners at all.

    Just as one of countless example problems with the basic category, to allow people to keep but not breed is insane. Little Johnny buys two female lizards for pets. The seller missexed them. Little Johnny is now breaking the law. Now Johnny needs to either deal with this problem or release the babies or, not knowing what to do, he may worry. Most people are going to say 'oh, $#!t' and not work with the system.

    Category two, you have a few animals, you want to breed your Carpet Python, oh, it was a larger than average clutch. Now you're breaking the law. Heck, I've had individual female reptiles produce more than 50 babies in a single season, and if I already had another animals, that limit becomes even less. Similar problems.

    Category three. This is actually fine for people like me, and isn't a problem for any large keeper who manages money well and is honest and decent and does the right thing. Unfortunately, $682.90 in a single payment is going to discourage a lot of people and since it's the only way to reasonably keep more than a couple of pet reptiles without worrying about accidentally breaking the law, you're again encouraging people to stay off the system. Additionally, giving every normal keeper pet shop license terms is going to encourage trading/dealing which is going to promote disease issues in what is already Australia's reptile disease hot spot. I know keepers in Victoria who already won't buy anything from QLD and some organisations won't take reptiles from QLD because of the virus issues. The six month rule is actually one of the license terms I agree with. It's widely recognised that it does a lot of good, it was introduced because before it existed there were many problems. Why would they want to get rid of something which is demonstrated to prevent problems, especially in the state where it is most needed?

    This will clearly encourage people not to bother with licensing, and for those who do bother, it pushed them into a position where they are likely to break the law. The department then needs to decide if they will just let their system openly stand as a joke or make an attempt to enforce it, which can't be done effectively, meaning some people get fines (which just pi$$es them off and serves as a warning to others to go off license) and others slip through the inevitable many cracks.

    You need a system which makes sense and is easy for people to work with. This is terrible.
     
  4. Nero Egernia

    Nero Egernia Subscriber Subscriber

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    That janky proposal makes the WA system look good. When that happens, you know you have a big problem on your hands.
     
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  5. -Adam-

    -Adam- Active Member

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    I'd like to see them justify by what logic they've came to this conclusion. It's one thing for them to say it's the law - but they should be held accountable to justify both the cost, and the logic behind it.

    Maybe they need to receive a few hundred letters asking for them to explain the justification behind this.

    Oh - BTW - what is a protected spider? Are their actually protected spiders in Australia? (That's a first for me)
     
  6. Herptology

    Herptology Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion its just going to push more people such as beginner breeders into "underground" breeding, off the books etc
     
  7. Sdaji

    Sdaji APS Veteran APS Veteran

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    Definitely. If you make it too difficult to do it legally, people do it illegally. When people are being set up to produce animals illegally (often unintentionally), they'll be forced to either kill them, release them into the wild (potentially introducing parasites and diseases and definitely putting the wrong genetics into the local population, or potentially creating a pest population) or selling them, and any method of selling them will be illegal, either selling off license or encouraging people to form illegal trading systems.

    Obviously it's going to be better for everyone if we have a system which allows and encourages everyone to within it comfortably and happily.
     
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  8. Allan

    Allan Subscriber Subscriber

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  9. Flaviemys purvisi

    Flaviemys purvisi Very Well-Known Member

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    This will just get put aside like it did the last time it came up for review due to huge public backlash. If it did actually come to fruition, it'll just drive people "underground."
     
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  10. Herptology

    Herptology Well-Known Member

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  11. Flaviemys purvisi

    Flaviemys purvisi Very Well-Known Member

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    Fortunately the species I keep and breed are native to and restricted in NSW... I live in QLD and as far as QLD is concerned, the proposed changes have no bearing on me whatsoever.
     
  12. Sdaji

    Sdaji APS Veteran APS Veteran

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    We need to be careful of this attitude. I'm not even in QLD but the proposed changes would have an affect on me. They would affect all of us. No man is an island. If many keepers start doing things illegally because the laws encourage them to break the law and will often put them in a position of breaking the law accidentally, it creates an overall situation of 'reptiles keepers are irresponsible law breakers', which brings a change in public attitude and regulation. In the very short term, sure, it won't affect you or me, but over time it will affect all reptile keepers in the country.

    If keepers are being encouraged to keep their breeding secret and trade illegally, it creates an illegal market, which again, changes the dynamics of the hobby, for example, if people are keeping illegally anyway, many will figure hey, why not keep some Red-eared Sliders? It also concerns me as a naturalist because it will encourage people to dump animals into the wild.

    I would much prefer to either have a system which everyone can work within. A dysfunctional system is worth than scrapping the system entirely.
     
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  13. Flaviemys purvisi

    Flaviemys purvisi Very Well-Known Member

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    I understand what you're saying but all I'm saying is the proposed changes outlined literally won't affect anything I'm personally doing at all apart from paper transfers switching to online.
     
  14. -Adam-

    -Adam- Active Member

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    You see - this is where I want the evidence - justification. Are the submissions publicly available?

    I ask because I have my suspicions about the claims. I've heard a lot of government departments proclaim the same. The most recent I've had first hand experience in - one was a change in school runs by buses. It was done, and their was a huge uproar. There wasn't one single parent that was found that said that they were asked or consulted, yet the government said that they had consulted parents regarding the changes and this was what was requested. In fact - it was obvious from any local that the changes were poorly considered - and that it was unlikely any locals were consulted at all. The final evidence was the huge uproar, and the changing back to the old schedule.

    I could be completely wrong - but it doesn't make sense to me that it seems so botched up if the changes are based on what they say. - I rather suspect that there are bureaucrats that decide themselves - don't do their jobs properly (are lazy) - or want to push their own agenda and while they claim they've consulted the industry or interest groups have likely done no such thing. If I was working in this bureaucracy and lied saying decisions were based on feedback but I ignored feedback and went ahead with what I wanted (but claimed that the changes I made were as a direct result of feedback) - who can find out? Who would ever know? To me, there seems to be no accountability for bureaucrats to actually tell the truth.

    I'd love to see evidence that proves me wrong. Is the feedback available to the public to see?
     
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  15. mrkos

    mrkos Well-Known Member

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    Got an email yesterday starts from August so my breeding diamonds will then be illegal typical Australian government Soon we will be paying to go to the toilet
     
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  16. Flaviemys purvisi

    Flaviemys purvisi Very Well-Known Member

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    So what does that mean.... you'll be allowed to keep your current animals but no longer breed or sell them?? Surely you aren't bound by these new changes until your existing licence expires?
     
  17. Sdaji

    Sdaji APS Veteran APS Veteran

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    Kinda missing the important points there...
     
  18. Herptology

    Herptology Well-Known Member

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    You won’t be bound to new licensing rules whilst you still have an existing license on the old rules
     
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  19. Flaviemys purvisi

    Flaviemys purvisi Very Well-Known Member

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    I can't help what this does to anyone else. The changes, if you ask me are s**t and I believe it will drive illegal trade through the roof and what else do you expect? People aren't just going to shelve all their hard work, time, $$ and dedication just because some paper pushing pansies made a rule change. If breeding is outlawed... reptile trading in this country will be bigger than the illicit drug trade. Millionaires will be made.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2020
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  20. Sdaji

    Sdaji APS Veteran APS Veteran

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    That's like saying 'Well, they're proposing to bulldose the entire habitat of the Australian Green Python, but hey, it won't affect mine at home so it doesn't affect me".

    This isn't about the direct impact on me or you, which is zero. It's about the negative impact on the hobby as a whole, which has an indirect affect on everyone, including you.
     
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