Proving GTP Locality

[Mudimans]

I had an interesting phone call yesterday from DERM up here in Qld . Several months ago my wife bought me a hatchie GTP (Aussie) and now DERM are requesting a DNA certificate to prove that it is in fact an Aussie GTP or they would have no choice but to make me upgrade my licence to an internation licence rather than just having a restricted animal on a recreational licence.

Also what would be the point in doing DNA profiling on Aussie GTP's, to have any type of use you would need to profile every Aussie GTP in captivity to be able to prove which animal hatched from which parents and the cost of that would be astronomical.

I have been in contact with the breeder and he has never heard of this happening before. Has this ever happened to anyone else or am I just special?

 

[pythons73]

I can imagine a few people will say they have Aussies to save a few bucks.I think thats a bit harsh doing DNA to prove if infact it is a Aussie.How many DNA profiles do they have on record....I havent heard of anyone else this has happened to so you MUST be special..lol

 

[killimike]

Who did you talk to at the DERM again?

 

[hoppyone]

I have'nt heard of this before sound like money grabing very strange they should be looking at the seller not the buyer best of luck

 

[Ozzie Python]

i haven't got my gtp yet, and hope to get an aussie when i do. but for the sake of not having any issues in the future i spent the $11 or whatever it is now and added the international licence.

i suppose now gtp's have dropped to a price where most can get one, and more being bred, there are going to be a lot more in the hobby keeping them. it's not unrealistic that DERM are going to start cracking down on it a little more.

 

[Mudimans]

I spoke with one of the rangers from the maroochydore office. I don't really care if I have to pay a little more on my licence but if this is the way it's going then native gtp will have to go up in price if breeders are forced to do DNA testing to be able to sell them as native.

 

[Ozzie Python]

true mudimans, that could be an issue. i wonder if a certificate of origin with purchased animals would be evidence enough. i think michael had even posted up the idea not long ago. coming from reputable breeders i don't see an issue, but again that system would probably be abused by others.

what is required for a dna sample? blood? or is a shed enough for them? if DERM are going this way i think it would only be fair that they cover the cost.

 

[Bushman]

...DERM are requesting a DNA certificate to prove that it is in fact an Aussie GTP.

Ay, there's the rub!
I'm not aware of any recent developments in DNA research that allows the determination between the southern clade PNG Morelia viridis and our Aussie GTP's.
I'm a splitter when it comes to GTP, not only on a sub-specific level but also on a generic level. I reckon the Aussie natives are quite distinct and warrant taxonomic separation.
I welcome any developments or breakthroughs in DNA research that will enable us to distinguish the differences between the Aussie and overseas animals.
If there are any new advances in this area, then I'd love to hear about it. Does anyone know of any recent breakthroughs or published papers?

 

[longqi]

This could really open a can of worms
I understand DERM has DNA from Iron Mountain specimens but how could they determine with any accuracy an Aussie GTP that has mixed with a Papuan one??

 

[Waterrat]

I am the breeder who sold the snake to Mudimans.
To me, it seems like some uneducated admin person had a shot at him. Surely, the Department would be aware that no such thing can be done and to go for the nearest "proof" would be very costly. I had my founding animals mDNA profiled and there is a statement on the certificates that I issue with every snake stating that "this snake is a progeny of ....." and that's about the best I can do. I am not distributing copies of the report because the analysis were done on my request and at my considerable cost. There are certain constraints when it comes to conclusive evidence, simply because A/ mitochondrial DNA is carried only on maternal side and B/ there is no clear resolution btw Aussie and souther PNG population genetics.
Even if it was a clear, straight cut, to determine that Mudiman's snake is the progeny of two of my DNA profiled snakes, DNA samples would be required from all 3 specimens: the juvenile, mother and father. Then, a finger printing technique would have to used - again, quite expensive procedure.
Another problem would raise if, hypothetically, I crossed Aussie female with PNG male. The origins of the parent male would be undetectable.
So, I hope this nonsense will go away and that if for no other reason - any such evidence would be deemed non-conclusive in a court of law.
I am making enquiries into this incident and hopefully by tomorrow I will bet some feedback from DERM.

M

 

[kawasakirider]

i haven't got my gtp yet, and hope to get an aussie when i do. but for the sake of not having any issues in the future i spent the $11 or whatever it is now and added the international licence.
.

So you can have an "international" license to cover GTP's that aren't pureblooded Aussie animals, yet can't have other exotics?

 

[Waterrat]

So you can have an "international" license to cover GTP's that aren't pureblooded Aussie animals, yet can't have other exotics?

Only GTPs.
Anyone with a genuine Aussie GTP should insist on having it registered as native. It would be a damn shame if they were not recognized as such by some useless bloody bureaucrats!

 

[kawasakirider]

Only GTPs.
Anyone with a genuine Aussie GTP should insist on having it registered as native. It would be a damn shame if they were not recognized as such by some useless bloody bureaucrats!

If that's the case, I don't understand the no exotic thing at all.

"No exotics, but chondro's from PNG are fine"......

 

[Waterrat]

You still can't import them.

 

[kawasakirider]

Fair enough, then why not allow a license for exotics that are already here?

Can you breed the PNG GTP's?

 

[Waterrat]

Ring DERM and ask them straight up. I don't think anybody here can explain.

 

[Snakeluvver2]

Please don't turn this into another "Keeping Exotic" debate.

 

[kawasakirider]

Well can the second question be answered? Can you breed PNG GTP's?

 

[longqi]

There were a limited number of exotic GTPs here pre amnesty
They can be bred
It is still illegal to bring any imports
I said exotic rather than PNG deliberately
This is because the various varieties of GPT are much more likely to be found in Irian Jaya or Papua as it is now called
Very few actually come from PNG

 

[Just_Plain_Nuts]

Sounds like some government official bignoting themselves again. They sit behind desks and have little to no idea of what they are doing. I have seen this sort of beaurocratic rubbish in things like OHS in the painting industry, might sound great on paper but cannot be done in the real world.