Pygmy freshwater croc

Discussion in 'General Reptile Discussion' started by CrazyNut, Jan 30, 2016.

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  1. cement

    cement Subscriber Subscriber APS Veteran

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    that croc suffered a bullet in the head. No doubt there was definatly shown to be a bond between the two and that species isn't porosis, but I'd be betting there was some brain damage done which could have contributed to its ability to form the bond with him. They mate for life, so I think the possibility could be there that the injury affected him.
     
  2. butters

    butters Well-Known Member

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    Had a look today and there are differences. Pygmys appear to have extra webbing on the sides of the feet, teeth are a little different and head/snout shapes slightly different.
    Stupidly I didn't get photos but I'll will try next weekend and post them.
    Temperment is very different as well with pygmys being incredibly laid back and easy to handle. They don't give any territorial lunges or tail slaps like the salties and normal freshies do. You can literally just reach in a pick them up.
    6 years old and around 70cms long for one, 80 cms for the other.
     
  3. CrazyNut

    CrazyNut Well-Known Member

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    Looking at the photos on google, I could definetly see a differnce in the snout. The pygmys seem to have a thinner more elongated snout (kind of like a gahrial cross with a freshie lol). How do you know the age (just curious). I would love to know if the life span diffrenciates from regular freshwater crocodiles. As in do they have slightly differnet corting habits? Do they live longer or shorter? Is the clutch size larger or smaller?? It be also intersting to see what there nests look like, assuming they build nest, maybe they lay in rock crevices.... So many questions haha
     
  4. butters

    butters Well-Known Member

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    They came from a zoo so age is known. Patterning is slightly different too but I'm sure there is pattern variation within the freshwater croc populations so I wouldn't use that as an indicator.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Supposedly they can breed at 70cms and when I was holding them today I was trying to figure out how they would fit the eggs in. I would hazard a guess the clutch size is very small and I would doubt much more than 6 max 10 and even then I'm assuming the eggs are much smaller than normal.
     
  5. CrazyNut

    CrazyNut Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps they are smaller eggs. Beardeds lay about 20 and they are well under 70cm.
     
  6. butters

    butters Well-Known Member

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    Normal sized freshies lay up to 20, average a dozen, so I'm expecting less than that. Imagine the croc that came out of a Beardie sized egg. Im guessing they're smaller but not that much smaller.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 8, 2016
  7. CrazyNut

    CrazyNut Well-Known Member

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    Eh still possible. Not very likely but anyway.... Be super cool if they did lay like 20 eggs haha
     
  8. 5hane

    5hane Not so new Member

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    just a thought. it was mentioned that crocs don't have the dexterity or dentition to "chew" the legs off a toad, but they are quite capable of dismembering animals with the trashing of their head or with the classic death roll. So would it not be quite plausible that these crocs are simply grabbing the toad by the back legs and simply trashing the hell out of it against the surface of the water? food for thought. I'm sure we have all seen the incredible footage on numerous documentaries were Nile crocs rip wilder beasts, zebras and such to absolute shreds with as little as a head shake. ;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2016
  9. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 APS Veteran APS Veteran

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    @Shane. The photos shown of toads that may have been possibly used by Pygmy crocs, show they have mangled back legs that are not totally torn off. Freshwater crocs seldom ever eat anything larger than they can swallow in one gulp. What they do to kill their insect, fish and crustacean prey is chomp it a few times by ‘throwing it in the air and re-seizing, at the same positioning it into the middle of mouth so it falls down their gullet when they open their mouth up vertically. I suspect what Dr. Britton was getting at was that they are doing this but only chomping down on the back legs and not repositioning the toads. Repeated chomping would release juices and likely silvers of flesh.

    Funding for purely scientific research (without a direct practical application) has pretty much dried up in recent years. However, if you can make a link with the Cane Toad ‘menace’ and show our animals are surviving the onslaught, then the politicians and bureaucrats and the general public are all happy to be associated with positive outcomes for such a high public profile issue. It is certainly won’t hurt Dr. Britton’s funding requests to suggest there might be a connection. Am I being too cynical here?

    To answer CrazyNut’s original question, the genetics show that Pygmys are clearly the same species as the rest of the Freshies. Only Mr. Poser disagrees – and he even wants to name a new genus! A captive pair of Pygmys were bred at Melbourne Zoo and the offspring fed a normal diet. They still ended up dwarfed, indicating it is genetic. Unfortunately the info on clutch size and egg sizes is not readily available, but as a rule, smaller individuals have fewer eggs of comparable size. There are indications of a minor genetic difference but wider sampling is required to confirm if this is consistent. What is known at this point is not deemed sufficient by the croc people to warrant sub-specific status investigation.

    Contrary to earlier statement made, croc species are renowned for NOT being able to be tamed. This is why something like Rob Bredl sitting on his 3.4 m croc Brian is such a drawcard. As far as croc intelligence goes, they are very capable of learning, as are pretty much all vertebrates, but as to their ‘level’ of intelligence I have no idea. It is apparent that are able to recognise their specific ‘handler’. When talking brain size, body mass is an important influence, as is also the degree of encephalisation. All three factors must be taken into account in any attempt to quantify intelligence.
     
  10. 5hane

    5hane Not so new Member

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    I haven't seen the pictures. i was just reading the thread and the thought popped into my head. But yes I've seen freshies eating fish, where they 'juggled' them until the fishes head was facing towards the throat and were then swallowed whole. Being such intelligent creatures 'if' they were to learn to eat certain parts of the toad the thrashing of the toad would easily explain how it could be done since many other crocodilians do it.
     
  11. GBWhite

    GBWhite Well-Known Member

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    Hi Shane,

    I agree with most of what Bluetongue has posted above. especially his comments about increased prospects of obtaining research funding by providing a link to an invasive species such as the Cane Toad. Still not convinced about them just chewing the legs off toads though.

    I find myself being just as cynical as Bluetongue regarding Adam Britton's funding requests where he suggests there might be a connection.

    I've been digging around since this topic raised its head and it appears to me that there is a lot of research papers containing contradictory information.

    Rather than dissect the lot I've provided a link to where you can access most of the papers and come to your own conclusion.

    Cheers.

    http://www.publish.csiro.au/paper/WR12215
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2016
  12. 5hane

    5hane Not so new Member

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    hey George,

    cheers for the link I'll have a squiz through it. I don't disagree with Bluetongues comment, It's pretty fair dinkum to say the least. just thought I'd throw another theory in to the mix. Until it's proven with film or photos I agree it's unlikely, but stranger things have happened.

    cheers mate,

    Shane.
     
  13. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 APS Veteran APS Veteran

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    [MENTION=2280]shane[/MENTION]. Like so many things, its about possibilities versus probabilities.
     
  14. eipper

    eipper Very Well-Known Member APS Veteran

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    I have an adult female.......I need a male!!!!or at least the loan of one
     
  15. CrazyNut

    CrazyNut Well-Known Member

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    Hope u breed them! So cool! Small enogh for even me to keep haha
     
  16. BredliFreak

    BredliFreak Well-Known Member

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    Pfft! Stop making me jealous!

    Would you say they are pretty rewarding to keep eipper
     
  17. longirostris

    longirostris Active Member

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    Hi Scott, have you had a chat with Gavin, I am pretty sure last time I saw him at CC he had a male on display. Might be able to work out some process of getting either yours to him or his to yours. Just a thought, wouldn't think there would be too many of these animals in private hands so you may have few other options.

    Best of luck with finding a male and breeding them

    Regards
     
  18. eipper

    eipper Very Well-Known Member APS Veteran

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    I have had Fred for 17 years now- she is great
     
  19. BredliFreak

    BredliFreak Well-Known Member

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    Peter Child has a pygmy, not sure if it's male or not but try getting in contact with him?
     
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