Recovering from week long winter blackout

[kingofnobbys]

My poor skinks and beardies all lost their heat and UV for the duration (from Monday afternoon - Friday morning) and our house was freezing .

Essentially they all went to sleep and only one sturring was my water skink who had regular drinks and changed spots a few times a day.

Had them all out for contact time on Thursday and let them soak up some of my body heat under a towel on my tummy and chest and all perked up but weren't very interested in any crickets (offered by hand), only 3 - 4 crickets each beardie and bluetongue and the waterskink took one and a mealworm pupae.

No food today but got the heat and UV back on with the return of electricity and they all spent all day under their lights basking.

Just wondering how other's managed this disaster for their reptiles ?

 

[Pythoninfinite]

If your reptiles close down because they are cold, it is unwise to disturb them for "contact time" - which is essentially for your satisfaction but may be very harmful to the physiological and metabolic which are happening at that time. Temperature changes at the change of seasons brings about very different physiological processes than changes at other times and even though we may keep them in a managed environment, the animals' inbuilt mechanisms are ready to respond to these seasonal changes, such as temp drop. Animals disturbed when cold or preparing for brumation, which yours were in effect doing, may be far more susceptible to diseases such as RI when disturbed at this time. Far better to leave them be until normal and consistent conditions return.

Warming them up for a short period then returning them to a cold environment is potentially dangerous to their health.

Jamie

 

[kingofnobbys]

If your reptiles close down because they are cold, it is unwise to disturb them for "contact time" - which is essentially for your satisfaction but may be very harmful to the physiological and metabolic which are happening at that time. Temperature changes at the change of seasons brings about very different physiological processes than changes at other times and even though we may keep them in a managed environment, the animals' inbuilt mechanisms are ready to respond to these seasonal changes, such as temp drop. Animals disturbed when cold or preparing for brumation, which yours were in effect doing, may be far more susceptible to diseases such as RI when disturbed at this time. Far better to leave them be until normal and consistent conditions return.

Warming them up for a short period then returning them to a cold environment is potentially dangerous to their health.

Jamie

I'll keep a close eye on the beardies and BTs for RI. Will know better NEXT TIME. Thankyou for the advise ( addendum : even if it seems to of limited benefit = OK only if they hadn't eaten and had emptied their bowels).

Seem to be acting and behaving very normally and with no ill effects at this stage. None of my beardies or skinks have ever bromated.

Was really worried about them going into brumation without having done poos before hand - having digested and undigested food inside them is from what I read very dangerous if they go into brumation and don't get sufficient heat to process the food from their last meal or to void the bowel, rotting food and faeces inside them IS VERY BAD . Yes, we wanted some contact time too.


Addendum :

Someone on another local herp site who's been seriously effected by a long loss of electricity with no means of providing heat other than body heat (on the Central Coast) asked about his beardies who were freezing cold after a big meal just prior to the loss of heating for several days , and the advice given there by expert beardie breeders was to ensure they get some heat (by putting them next to the body in a coat) as it's important to give then enough heat to metabolise their last meal.

SO I DID THE RIGHT THING for all my lizards (beardies, BTs and EWS).

Also suggested there as boil some water and put in a hot water bottle wrapped in a thick towel and place them on that (providing you have gas to heat the water).

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Not an unexpected response from you king of knobs, and the chances of your animals becoming sick is slim but not worth ignoring. Of course reptiles encounter all sorts of environmental changes and challenges in the wild, such as sudden temperature drops for periods of some days etc, but the difference is that they can make the choices which are best for them at those times when in their natural environment. When captives are manhandled and manipulated at inappropriate times by well-meaning but ignorant keepers, they have no choice but to do what YOU think is best for them. All I was saying was that I'm sure you were well-meaning, but you may not be doing the best thing for your critters.

Disturbing cold reptiles to provide short-term heat is potentially damaging.

As far as emptying the digestive tract before brumation - wild reptiles which brumate don't take a dose of laxettes or have enemas before shutting up shop for the winter. They probably reduce the amount of food taken in as the weather cools, and thus have relatively small amounts of material in their tracts, but are certainly not totally empty.

Nice use of colour by the way!

Jamie

 

[GBWhite]

Goodness me Jamie...what would you know. Hahaha. This person has had advice from expert bearded breeders (personally I didn't know there was any such thing but apparently I'm wrong).

Funny how some people that are new to the game responds when someone who does know what they're talking about provides advice or a comment contrary to what they want to hear. My understanding of ethics for on line posting is - posting words in capital letters = shouting and in red it means that your shouting your response. Bit rude if you ask me...hahaha

I can't help but read this stuff and have a little giggle. Hell, before I moved back to the coast last Christmas I lived in Inverell in the NSW New England and kept all my BTS, BD's WD's and Shinglebacks in an outdoor pit. In winter it would often get down as low as -7 deg C and sometimes as low as -11 at night with day time temps only reaching single digits, with occasional cold snaps during mid spring and early autumn that would often last for days. Quite often the cold snaps would happen the day after the'd all had a big feed. They'd all disappear for anything from a week to a month and then come out when it was a nice sunny day with no ill effects at all.

But what would I know...hahaha.

George.

 

[cmclean]

My suggestion would have been to get a generator and plug the electrical system into that. You would have had light, heat etc. During the bush fires in 2009 we had no power for over 9 days, and eggs in the incubator. The generator fixed the problem so easily. Either buy one or hire one. Then if you have an emergency you are always covered. Be prepared!! That saying has relevance.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Yes George, I'm old and a bit grey around the edges, so I guess my opinions and advice might be a bit suspect ! I can't keep up with this younger crowd - they learn so much so damned fast!

With regard to needing a generator - certainly useful if you have eggs in the incubator and your power supply is unreliable, but even then our power usually only goes off for a few hours at a time and this is usually no problem. But in your case, cmclean, definitely an important standby in that circumstance. Absolutely not necessary in the short-term for your animals though, even for things like greens for most of the year, although for highly tropical species more than a few days in very cold weather might require auxilliary heating. The trick is to just leave them alone, no interference and no handling, until conditions return to normal.

Years ago, when I was still a kid and living in Perth, I had a beautiful Lace Monitor sent to me as a juvy by Eric Worrell. He lived in my bedroom (not the most hygienic critter to have crapping on your bed - I had a very tolerant mother!). I had him for about 5 years in that situation. At night he used to curl up in an old schoolbag on top of my wardrobe (I used to leave a door of it open so he could climb up through my clothes and get to his schoolbag). He also used to over-winter there as well, and I wouldn't see him at all between May and September, until he'd come out one warm spring morning and sun himself on my table at the window. In the middle of his last winter, when I was away, a friend of mine stayed in my room and disturbed him from his slumber to show some friends on a couple of occasions. The animal never settled again, would wander around almost paralysed with cold, contracted a serious RI and eventually wasted away and died - this was long before the use of antibiotics became routine in circumstances like this. These days I'm sure I could deal with a problem like this, but back in the 60s info and knowledge were scarce.

All I suggest is as I've said above, avoid handling your reptiles when they are cold, and especially avoid doing it if you are only able to put them back into a cold environment. They become inactive when cold for a reason, and giving them a gee-up when they're cold can be dangerous to their health.

Jamie

 

[kingofnobbys]

My suggestion would have been to get a generator and plug the electrical system into that. You would have had light, heat etc. During the bush fires in 2009 we had no power for over 9 days, and eggs in the incubator. The generator fixed the problem so easily. Either buy one or hire one. Then if you have an emergency you are always covered. Be prepared!! That saying has relevance.

I am looking into getting a good portable generator to keep my fridges and freezers powered and maybe run a electric oil heater ( and of cause the lizards will benefit too ) for next time we loose power for more than 24 hrs - there will be a next time I am sure of that .

 

[eipper]

ok well I might not be an expert beardie keeper- but I might know a thing or two about reptiles. All of the species you mentioned brumate and are designed to do so. By not allowing them brumate by keeping their bodies at elevated temperatures you can cause health issues associated with increased sustained metabolic rates.

Certainly Eulamprus do not like being held- I have kept 3 of the 5 species I guarantee you elevated the stress levels and thus lowered the immune system response by handling. There is a huge difference in lizards like Blue tongues and Bearded Dragons tolerating and enjoying handling- its us that enjoy the handling not the other way round.

Lizards will regurgitate if they need to....I can say I have never heard of a case where food has rotted in a stomach of a healthy reptile.

Take my advice if you like or ignore at your peril

 

[Wally]

Successfully keeping and breeding Pogona species in Melbourne would be an eye opener for some.

Heat is important. At the right times.

 

[kingofnobbys]

I openly admit I'm new to keeping lizards as pets (I'm not breeding the EWS or CBDs , but did get a few bubs from my pair BTS last summer) after they got together on the floor.

I am not an expert. Never claimed to be one.

Got only very few responses when I really needed them and please forgive me if I seeked more information and went looking for a second opinion. (This is very wise policy when you are in doubt about advise you've been given.)
Now if my seeking more information on what to do and a second opinion has bruised a fragile ego or two I wont apologise for that.

Internet etiquette - I don't care about that so if my seemingly inappropriate font use upset some - jeez get a life.

I know no one here and don't know anyone's history or level of expertise so don't get all hot and bothered if I didn't accept the advise on face value without looking elsewhere to either confirm it or debunk it. Any Tom Dick or Harry can claim expertise and give very bad advise especially on message boards and you shouldn't accept what you are told without taking a grain of salt with it.

To let the lizards brumate or not - from my limited reading - is optional and I've not found any reason why it's necessary or detrimental not to (except maybe if you have a formal breeding program perhaps). Perhaps this is good subject for a discussion as separate thread (wait - I think I started that thread)).

Handling - another discussion maybe.

 

[GBWhite]

Did you get that fragile ego of yours bruised Jamie? What about you Scott? Goodness me I hope your both ok. Hahaha. I think some people post more for attention than answers sometimes. May be you should do what I do and just speak over them and ignore clowns like this.

He's a very long way behind the eight ball if he thinks brumation and handling haven't been discussed on here before...hahaha.

 

[eipper]

It's ok George my skin is thick. I don't mind if some young fella has a chip at me. His limited reading is just that- limited and while I have attempted to assist him I cannot be sure I will bother with his questions again.

 

[kingofnobbys]

Did you get that fragile ego of yours bruised Jamie? What about you Scott? Goodness me I hope your both ok. Hahaha. I think some people post more for attention than answers sometimes. May be you should do what I do and just speak over them and ignore clowns like this.

He's a very long way behind the eight ball if he thinks brumation and handling haven't been discussed on here before...hahaha.

I know nothing of the past history of topics here beyond those I've seen since joining - a very short time.

I'll seek out the topics you mention and read them (betting there is a lot of BS and bad advise and misinformation in them and not much actually useful stuff posted in them though and the trick will be filtering out the good information).

- - - Updated - - -

It's ok George my skin is thick. I don't mind if some young fella has a chip at me. His limited reading is just that- limited and while I have attempted to assist him I cannot be sure I will bother with his questions again.

Skin as thick as a rhino's seems to be a requirement here.