Research into Neuro problems of Jags.

Discussion in 'Australian Snakes' started by motman440, Jul 19, 2011.

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  1. motman440

    motman440 Well-Known Member

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    Hi all.
    At this moment in time I'm enrolled in a subject at universit by the name of "Animal Behaviour and Welfare"
    One of the two major research projects for the subject is a 5000 word report on any issue in animal behaviour/welfare.

    I thought the consequences of breeding designer pythons may be an interesting topic to delve into.

    So was hoping all you fellow enthusiast might be able to point me in the direction of some good reading or info or anything like that.
    I was hoping to make a major case point of Neurological problems in the "jag" morph breeding.

    Have started to do some light skimming but have not found much credible research.
    Opinions aren't particularly necessary (I know how passionate you herpers are) but anything helpful would be appreciated.
    Regards
    Thom

    Pm me or email me if your not particularly

    thomas.williams@westnet.com.au
     
  2. swan91

    swan91 Guest

    haha im doing my honours project on this in a couple of years.. :) im in veterinary science at csu and i got a scholarship for coming first in animal behavior and welfare which i thought would be a good investment to buy jags for my research!
     
  3. motman440

    motman440 Well-Known Member

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    Haha clearly great minds think alike. Although my mind isn't too great at the best of times. You'll have to hunt me down if you ever need a hand with your research!
     
  4. swan91

    swan91 Guest

    it may be hard to find enough directly related journal articles as it has not been studied intensively.. maybe talk about it and back it up with reference to other similar diseases? like some found in other animals like mice/horses.. im thinking it has something to do with migration of neural crest cell melanocytes.. if you wait a few years you can use my research paper to reference too ^__^ lol
    similar conditions are like hooded mice/piebaldisim or OLWS (overo lethal White Syndrome) in horses.. but for a behaviour and welfare perspective you wouldnt need to get into why they have problems.. more what is compromising their welfare.. so talking about how snakes express pain etc.. would be easier to base the majority of your paper on..
    hope this helps
    and if you find anything interesting can you send it to me too? lol the more the better for my research! :D
     
  5. motman440

    motman440 Well-Known Member

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    Yeh i talked to Raf about it. Thats pretty much what he said to me. Just thought I'd attempt to find a bit of info to read up on.

    Thanks for the help. Good luck with your studies!
     
  6. Kenno

    Kenno Active Member

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    Your research sounds purely theroretical, with conclusions drawn from already available information. In that case I suggest you scrap the 'jag' morph idea as not enough people really breed them here or internationally to provide you with the type of headache invoking info you need to construct anything that is remotely creditable. Let your fingers and google do the walking for you and look into the 'spider' ball python morph and it's various concocted relatives, it's the same morph as the jags just expressed in a different species. One that is conviniently bred on a much, much larger scale. I wouldnt just stop there though as you still might not have enough referable info. I'd go deeper and look into all ball python morphs and the respective misfortunes they suffer as a result of the pretty color they've been made to wear.*The only reason I suggest balls is because they are bred in the millions and and have been done so for years. The info will dwarf what you could find on a specific little ol' carpet morph.*Best luck with it.*
     
  7. motman440

    motman440 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks kenno.
    Have looked into ball pythons found it interesting and yet a still generally cloudy subject. I actually found that the information to be somewhat more misguided. One site will tell you it is inherited and the next will tell you its not. And it is still only forum post no actual information. The main reason in selecting the Australian industry and the Jags genetic problems is that it is a smaller system that will allow more critical analysis i comparison to the US of A. I'm not necessarily looking for information stating why it occurs, more as to whether these problems cause severe effects to health and welfare, whether the pythons are in pain and if the industry should allow this to occur.
     
  8. HOM3L3SS

    HOM3L3SS Well-Known Member

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  9. motman440

    motman440 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Harry. Much appreciated.
     
  10. motman440

    motman440 Well-Known Member

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    thought i might just bump this up again and see if I get a nibble at all.
    Anything would be great!
     
  11. cagey

    cagey Subscriber Subscriber

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  12. longqi

    longqi Very Well-Known Member

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    The biggest problem you face is a very simple one
    Jag breeders are very closed mouth about neuro problems for obvious reasons
    Some even say there are no neuro problems
    Most will not even openly discus what they are trying to do to fix the problem

    The reason behind the closed doors is also simple
    First person to produce a neuro free Jag is an instant millionaire

    That is why you get so many different stories and reports
    I saw my first Jags in Hamburg in 1998
    Saw my first with obvious neuro in Denmark in 2003/4
    Judged a carpet competition including Jags in Surabaya one month ago
    As far as I can tell nothing except more colour variations has changed

    In some cases some breeders are saying that the problem is lessening
    But the stats from their breeding facilities seem to show that the frequency remains pretty steady
     
  13. BigWillieStyles

    BigWillieStyles Well-Known Member

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    I just finished an honours year where I researched the impact of climate change on legless lizards :)

    I agree with longqi, amature herpetologists have really kept a lid on the neuro issues. If I were you, I would look at hybridisation in general, and perhaps use Neurological issues as a paragraph or in your conclusion. There is heaps of hybridisation articles and how it is a major threat to populations.
     
  14. motman440

    motman440 Well-Known Member

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    @longqi

    I actually didn't realise how tight lipped the industry is. Even in ball pythons I'm struggling to find any research carried out or even information form breeders, and fair enough i guess. My attempts are to write more so on the ethics of perpetuating such genetic defects. The information is more to give an overview.
     
  15. longqi

    longqi Very Well-Known Member

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    Reptile breeders as a group are very free with information on most things
    But with morph complications in any reptile species they tend to keep pretty quiet
    Because reptiles are still an insignificant part of the pet trade I have found no serious study done by properly equipped and recorded institutions
    If you investigated say genetic problems with dogs the answers are much easier to find

    Getting involved in the ethics part will only get you flamed from here to eternity
    If you think the flaming is bad on here you should try talking morph ethics overseas
    OUCH

    Bigwilly
    Thats strange
    We have all the Aussie Jag experts repeatedly proving beyond any shadow of doubt that hybridization of jags is zero threat to existing colonies of morelia sub-species??
    They repeat this countless times so they must be right???
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2011
  16. BigWillieStyles

    BigWillieStyles Well-Known Member

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    To tell you the truth, in the light of recent flamings of my opinions on the topic, I actually tip toed around that suggestion and was referring to animals in general. There is lots of information of how hybridisation is driving animals to extinction, e.g. dingos, wolves, ducks, etc.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2011
  17. S&M Morelia

    S&M Morelia Active Member

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    I'd like to know how Aussie morph breeders have been keeping a "lid" on the neuro issues of jags.

    From what I am aware people are just speaking on their experiences on the Neuro issue of Jags in Australia.
    Still being relatively new morph the the hobby here in Australia, not many have been produced so a TRUE number of affected animals cannot be placed.

    I've seen it said before a number of times, All Jags have the potential to display neuro issues, yet there has only been a very small percentage to date that have been bred here in Australia that have shown any signs.
    It doesn't meen all will shows signs, some may show some from word go, some might show it when bred, some may never show any at all.

    As for the purchasing of jags for research, won't you have to obtain a scientific licence to do any research on captive animals?
     
  18. pythrulz

    pythrulz Very Well-Known Member

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    Maybe be better talking to someone who specificly breeds jags not that there going to say much about the neuro issues.But I do know its a condition that can never be bred out and could arrise at anytime there already dropped a lot in value
     
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