Snake going crazy again

[Bl69aze]

Hi guys, a few months ago I made a post asking about neuro in darwin pythons.

Well she’s doing funny stuff again such as letting go then regripping my arm, trying to shove her head under her body.
And most worrying of all she wraps her body around my arm sometimes going over her neck, making me think she’s gonna choke herself.
I think I remember someone saying it sounds like normal behaviour for a young python (hatchling -6mths old), however she’s almost 16months old now and still doing it and it does worry me when I handle her, so I hold her less and less.

I don’t think it’s a cause for the vets yet.(no stargazing)

Her temps at 30-32 because she always moves her probe, and temps aren’t quite accurate, and I’m worried she might get too hot on the glass, (found out what the styrofoam is for, it’s to stop the glass getting HOT to touch, but can still get “warm” to up of 40°c how ever no burns can be caused)

If anyone has any ideas or suggestions, would be grateful

Cheers


Edit: if it means anything, she hides ALOT only coming out at night, to shed or feeding,only once have I seen her come out for water during day.

Update 2/3/18
i found some time to ask my main supervisor about the lapping over neck. his analysis was that, that’s what snakes do and they don’t have the same sense of touch/feel that humans do, which is why you see stuff of snakes biting themselves and just chomping down etc.

 

[Scutellatus]

Hi guys, a few months ago I made a post asking about neuro in darwin pythons.

Well she’s doing funny stuff again such as letting go then regripping my arm, trying to shove her head under her body.
And most worrying of all she wraps her body around my arm sometimes going over her neck, making me think she’s gonna choke herself.
I think I remember someone saying it sounds like normal behaviour for a young python (hatchling -6mths old), however she’s almost 16months old now and still doing it and it does worry me when I handle her, so I hold her less and less.

I don’t think it’s a cause for the vets yet.(no stargazing)

Her temps at 30-32 because she always moves her probe, and temps aren’t quite accurate, and I’m worried she might get too hot on the glass, (found out what the styrofoam is for, it’s to stop the glass getting HOT to touch, but can still get “warm” to up of 40°c how ever no burns can be caused)

If anyone has any ideas or suggestions, would be grateful

Cheers


Edit: if it means anything, she hides ALOT only coming out at night, to shed or feeding,only once have I seen her come out for water during day.

Have you still got the styrofoam in between the heatmat and the base of the enclosure? If you do all i can say is you really need to take on board what myself and other people wrote in the last thread. Styrofoam is an insulator and should not be used with a heatmat. If you have a decent thermostat the glass won't be able to get hotter than the temperature you set the thermostat to.

 

[Bl69aze]

Have you still got the styrofoam in between the heatmat and the base of the enclosure? If you do all i can say is you really need to take on board what myself and other people wrote in the last thread. Styrofoam is an insulator and should not be used with a heatmat. If you have a decent thermostat the glass won't be able to get hotter than the temperature you set the thermostat to.

The foam was part of the tank, and she was doing it before this tank in her tub I’ve had my coastal in this tank before with 0 problems.

I’m not sure how to position the probe, some say on top of substrate, some say under substrate, some say an inch above substrate. If I put it on top of substrate then underneath gets quite a bit warmer and she tends to dig and reach the glass.

If I put probe underneath substrate, she moves it and temps go inaccurate.

 

[Shire pythons]

little bit confused ?? what makes you think heatmat/temperature is causing neuro issues when handling ?? im no expert but ihave my darwins heatspot around the 33-35 mark and they are thriving. try putting your probe under the tank and setting to say 37-38 and you will get a few degrees less inside (you will have to do some testing obviously) but that way she cant move probe and you will get a steady temp ..

 

[Scutellatus]

The foam was part of the tank, and she was doing it before this tank in her tub I’ve had my coastal in this tank before with 0 problems.

I’m not sure how to position the probe, some say on top of substrate, some say under substrate, some say an inch above substrate. If I put it on top of substrate then underneath gets quite a bit warmer and she tends to dig and reach the glass.

If I put probe underneath substrate, she moves it and temps go inaccurate.

Obviously you aren't using a reptile specific tank because they don't come with foam. Removing the foam isn't going to help with the snake issues but it will make your enclosure a lot safer. The foam is just making the heatmat work harder thus increasing the risk of fire. Cut out a square, scrape off all the foam and get a new heatmat (not the old rubbish inbuilt thermostat one) that you can stick to the glass.
If you can't do that then you are obviously not very serious about the welfare of your animal.

 

[Bl69aze]

Obviously you aren't using a reptile specific tank because they don't come with foam. Removing the foam isn't going to help with the snake issues but it will make your enclosure a lot safer. The foam is just making the heatmat work harder thus increasing the risk of fire. Cut out a square, scrape off all the foam and get a new heatmat (not the old rubbish inbuilt thermostat one) that you can stick to the glass.
If you can't do that then you are obviously not very serious about the welfare of your animal.

It’s an URS tank. And I have a proper reptile one heat mat with an external thermostat
[doublepost=1522365040,1522364957][/doublepost]

little bit confused ?? what makes you think heatmat/temperature is causing neuro issues when handling ?? im no expert but ihave my darwins heatspot around the 33-35 mark and they are thriving. try putting your probe under the tank and setting to say 37-38 and you will get a few degrees less inside (you will have to do some testing obviously) but that way she cant move probe and you will get a steady temp ..

What do you mean under the tank, the heat mat is stuck to the bottom :/

I don’t know, just trying to remove possibilities

 

[Nero Egernia]

A 40°c hot spot shouldn't be much of a problem as long as the snake has ample room to get away from the heat. Sometimes my adult pythons get similar temperatures in their basking area. All that means is that they need less time to reach their preferred body temperature and then they move off somewhere cooler. Now if the ambient temperature is constantly in the high thirties then you'll run into all sorts of problems.

 

[Pauls_Pythons]

How many hours of heating in the enclosure and whats the cool end temp?

 

[Shire pythons]

As in stick the probe on the edge or very close to the heatmat like on the outside of the tank . If the heatmat is stuck to the glass and the tank is on little feet stick the probe just on the edge of the mat and adjust the thermo to get desired temp if that makes sense
[doublepost=1522375927,1522375712][/doublepost]Also +1 on scrapping the foam . That is pretty much the opposite way to safely run a heatmat. Pretty sure they are designed to be stuck to the glass and have airflow under them via the use of feet on the tank itself ??

 

[Bl69aze]

It’s an URS tank.
[doublepost=1522365040,1522364957][/doublepost]
What do you mean under the tank, the heat mat is stuck to the bottom :/

I don’t know, just trying to remove possibilities

How many hours of heating in the enclosure and whats the cool end temp?

on an average day around 25~ She gets heating all day and night unless I turn it off on extra hot days 35+

A 40°c hot spot shouldn't be much of a problem as long as the snake has ample room to get away from the heat. Sometimes my adult pythons get similar temperatures in their basking area. All that means is that they need less time to reach their preferred body temperature and then they move off somewhere cooler. Now if the ambient temperature is constantly in the high thirties then you'll run into all sorts of problems.

The only spot that gets high 30s is the glass area above the mat under the hide and substrate.
on top of the substrate is 30-32 (turning off at 32) and I’m worried of raising this as the glass temp would also raise.


So I guess it’s not the heat causing problems, so what other possibilities could it be
[doublepost=1522376285][/doublepost]

As in stick the probe on the edge or very close to the heatmat like on the outside of the tank . If the heatmat is stuck to the glass and the tank is on little feet stick the probe just on the edge of the mat and adjust the thermo to get desired temp if that makes sense
[doublepost=1522375927,1522375712][/doublepost]Also +1 on scrapping the foam . That is pretty much the opposite way to safely run a heatmat. Pretty sure they are designed to be stuck to the glass and have airflow under them via the use of feet on the tank itself ??

Again, the tank was bought new with the foam preapplied to the bottom.

There is still a Cm or 2 of airflow under the mat

 

[Snapped]

Can you take a video of her when you handle her and she is doing the strange wrapping thing? Snakes can do strange things while trying to workout how to move around and hang on, mine used to get all tangled up like a pretzel when he was younger. ANyway, a video is a good idea so the more experienced people can observe whats going on.

Maybe you can post up a pic of your tank also, that would clear up any confusion.

 

[Shire pythons]

on an average day around 25~ She gets heating all day and night unless I turn it off on extra hot days 35+

The only spot that gets high 30s is the glass area above the mat under the hide and substrate.
on top of the substrate is 30-32 (turning off at 32) and I’m worried of raising this as the glass temp would also raise.


So I guess it’s not the heat causing problems, so what other possibilities could it be
[doublepost=1522376285][/doublepost]

Again, the tank was bought new with the foam preapplied to the bottom.

There is still a Cm or 2 of airflow under the mat

Fair enough mate its your snake and enclosure .. you asked for advice about probe position etc and people have given it. i think my suggestion would work but its up to you . Makes me wonder why you ask for advice in the first place ?

 

[Pauls_Pythons]

She gets heating all day and night unless I turn it off on extra hot days 35+

I'm not a fan of giving animals 24hr heating after the 1st winter.
I have had issues with this before in carpets and while I know some people offer 24/7 heating for the life time of the animal I think they suffer for it. They have no natural day/night cycle, no seasons nothing. Every hour of every day is the same for an animal that relies on cycles.
This is what I think you should focus on.

 

[Bl69aze]

Fair enough mate its your snake and enclosure .. you asked for advice about probe position etc and people have given it. i think my suggestion would work but its up to you . Makes me wonder why you ask for advice in the first place ?

I appreciate the help, but the only place to put the probe would be underneath the mat, and as far as I’m aware, only the top of the mat provides heat
[doublepost=1522387042,1522386920][/doublepost]

Can you take a video of her when you handle her and she is doing the strange wrapping thing? Snakes can do strange things while trying to workout how to move around and hang on, mine used to get all tangled up like a pretzel when he was younger. ANyway, a video is a good idea so the more experienced people can observe whats going on.

Maybe you can post up a pic of your tank also, that would clear up any confusion.

Of course I can, although I won’t be home for a few days, it’s like she seems fine in her tank ( apart from hiding heaps) then you get her out and she loses all sense of snaking around. If I put her down on ground or anywhere, she doesn’t get tangled up, it’s only when she’s moving up my arm and trying to coil around.
[doublepost=1522387277][/doublepost]

I'm not a fan of giving animals 24hr heating after the 1st winter.
I have had issues with this before in carpets and while I know some people offer 24/7 heating for the life time of the animal I think they suffer for it. They have no natural day/night cycle, no seasons nothing. Every hour of every day is the same for an animal that relies on cycles.
This is what I think you should focus on.

I can try doing this, what hours do you give? And how would I go about setting my thermostat to utilise it’s timer feature, I set it to 3-12 but then I realised it wasn’t working because it’s in the heater side of things, I’d have to somehow macgyver the thermostat plug into 2 sockets (temp + timer)

 

[Pauls_Pythons]

Put a separate timer on the power inlet. I never use the timer options on the thermostats.
For now 12 hours on 12 hours off would be a good place to start.

 

[Bl69aze]

Put a separate timer on the power inlet. I never use the timer options on the thermostats.
For now 12 hours on 12 hours off would be a good place to start.

So you mean like plug the thermostat into a timer which plugs into the wall? Is that safe? I think we’ve been having electrical problems in the house, seems to be power outage every night, the wall that was connected to diamonds mat seems to be constantly outputting power even if it’s turned off, so we need to call an electrician or find out what’s causing the fault.



Here’s a video of my thermostat if it means anything

 

[Pauls_Pythons]

Yes its safe. The timer controls the power supply to the thermostat.

 

[Bl69aze]

Yes its safe. The timer controls the power supply to the thermostat.

Any recommended brands?

 

[Pauls_Pythons]

Cheap ones from Bunnings. About $5 each

 

[dragonlover1]

I'm not a fan of giving animals 24hr heating after the 1st winter.
I have had issues with this before in carpets and while I know some people offer 24/7 heating for the life time of the animal I think they suffer for it. They have no natural day/night cycle, no seasons nothing. Every hour of every day is the same for an animal that relies on cycles.
This is what I think you should focus on.

all animals should be subject to natural rythms,ie what happens outside should mimic what happens inside unless you have specific reasons to alter nature