Snake ID - Kimberley Western Australia

[Bench_Warmer01]

I saw this snake over a 3 day period at night in the staff accomodation area at work, and after the last king brown here had boiling water and huge rocks thrown on it, ( before I arrived) There's no way i'd let any reptile suffer that fate here.

Anyway, I caught it and relocated it after missing it 3 times, it was around 70-80cm long, thin and slender, very small head, scale arrangment is slighlty different to any mulga ive seen, in the dark what i got it i presumed p.australis, but after photographing it upon release i had a closer look and believe this to be a false/pygmy mulga or an unknown subspecies, and I ended up catching and relocating another snake a - p.australias the next day, and it looked totally different.

 

[Elapidae1]

Not 100% but I would say mulga, P. australis

 

[$NaKe PiMp]

when you say scale arrangment was different ,what did you mean?? how did it differ from other P.australis.There is study done into this species suggesting from data collected that in P.australis can be divided into 5 species.The paper is called" Phylogeography of Australia
s king brown snake
(Pseudechis australis) reveals Pliocene divergence
and Pleistocene dispersal of a top predator"
I dont know if there is distinct morphological differences between them,will have to have a good read for my own curiosity sake now.

 

[ShaneBlack]

weigeli

 

[Jonno from ERD]

If anybody would like the paper Snake Pimp mentioned, email me at [email protected] and I will forward it to you.

As Shane said, it's Pseudechis weigeli.

 

[waruikazi]

Gavin Bedford has/had some of these on Display at crocosaurus aswell as what i assume are 'darwin' weigeli. They were named differently (i'm assuming by Gavin) i don't remember if they used a different scientific name or just common name but it was somethign along the lines of 'kimberly pygmy rock mulga.' Just incase you wanted to know.

 

[Slats]

Every Pygmy mulga I have ever seen has had three distinct lateral bars down the top of its nape.
This doesn't.

 

[Jonno from ERD]

Hi Slats,

There are three species of Pygmy Mulga - one from the Kimberley, one from Katherine/Top End and one from the Mt Isa area.

 

[Jonno from ERD]

Hmm, after having a quick chat with Bryan Fry, it seems I was wrong! Whilst it was assumed that there were three species from the above mentioned localities, it seems they are indeed one, continuous species right across. However, there are still only three species (with three other possibles offshore), with the other two coming from desert regions.

 

[$NaKe PiMp]

very intersting these thread,i wish there where more threads like it

 

[Bench_Warmer01]

Glad to know it was indeed a p.weigelii, and i made the correct assumption,thanks shane and jonno. Snakes everywhere here, i now have the ''snake guy'' reputation so instead of the shovel they call me now, Its a bad place for snakes, even olive pythons get killed because they 'may' prey on the chickens, I', beginning my search for v.glebopalma and v.glauteri on my days off, also finding a live BHP will be nice..

 

[carpetmuncher]

jonno, when you use the word 'species', do you mean 'populations', as it makes no sense, you can't describe one species as being 3 or 6 species.

 

[waruikazi]

What he means is that within the one currently described species of weigelii there are more undescribed species. You could compare it to what happened recently with the nuchalis group.

jonno, when you use the word 'species', do you mean 'populations', as it makes no sense, you can't describe one species as being 3 or 6 species.

 

[Elapidae1]

What he means is that within the one currently described species of weigelii there are more undescribed species. You could compare it to what happened recently with the nuchalis group.

Has nuchalis group been split into subspecies? How many? What are they? I thought this was put in the to hard basket, I understand that chromosonal research has shown there is several different subspecies but I think this is the only way to separate them.

Jonno and Oxydechis What is it in benchwarmers pictures that tells you it's weigeli and not australis, the only thing that strikes me is the colour doesn't appear as uniform as the king browns I have come across in these pics the it appears to be slightly mottled.

 

[H.bitorquatus]

Pseudonaja aspidorhyncha, Pseudonaja mengdeni, Pseudonaja nuchalis is now what nuchalis is made up of.

If Oxydechis said it was a weigeli, I would take his word, He would be one of the people who I would think would know.

 

[Elapidae1]

Pseudonaja aspidorhyncha, Pseudonaja mengdeni, Pseudonaja nuchalis is now what nuchalis is made up of.

If Oxydechis said it was a weigeli, I would take his word, He would be one of the people who I would think would know.

I am certainly not questioning because I think he is wrong, I am trying to increase my knowledge by asking what in the photo gives it away because it just looks like australis to me.

Steve

 

[Elapidae1]

already posted

 

[waruikazi]

Steve as H.bit said, here's a thread Jonno made with a short description of each. http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/general-discussion-42/pseudonaja-taxonomy-100292

 

[eipper]

Its a weigeli no question.....as for morphological difference between them and australis... maroon marking along the nape, much more slender build, smaller adult size and that the subcaudals are single vs divided.

Cheers,
Scott

 

[Elapidae1]

Steve as H.bit said, here's a thread Jonno made with a short description of each. http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/general-discussion-42/pseudonaja-taxonomy-100292

Is this splitting of P.nuchalis generally accepted, I mean visually there is obviously huge differences in appearance between specimens, most obviously the orange body and black head of P. mengdeni but I would have thought that they would overlap and naturally intergrade all to often. Experienced herpers have often had troubles between P. nuchalis and P affinis and these are believed to intergrade