Snake Identification

[JasonL]

Gold!....

 

[SteveNT]

looks like an ll. Never seen one that colouful though. Delma ish...

 

[saratoga]

Our local snake catcher and good friend of mine suggested it was a from the python family

wonder what other gems of information does he gives out on snake calls!

 

[Bluetongue1]

...When i first found the little guy i checked his underbelly and found no leg flaps and very small belly scales. ..... Our local snake catcher and good friend of mine suggested it was a from the python family but he could not determine and exact id.

Small belly scales means it was not a snake. Therefore it was a pygopod (legless lizard). You can let your mate know that it was not a python. It had the head markings and shape and body form of the Delma genus but there appeared to be bands along the entire body. The only black-headed pygopod in Dongara that I know can sometimes appear banded is the Hooded Scaly-foot (Pygopus nigriceps), which is why I suggested it as a possibility. Having said that, they are normally a lot thicker bodied that the individual in the photo.

Blue

 

[Snake_Whisperer]

I agree with Chewy. Here is what I would have included in last night's post had I not started to fall asleep at the keyboard...

I would recommend NOT free handling any serpent-like reptiles, no matter how small, until you are sure of their identity. Some elapids can still be dangerously venomous at a small size.

Agreed. I think P. textilis' are adorable as bubs, but picking one up... well... likely a very unpleasant outcome.
If you could see ear openings, leg flaps or a wide, fleshy tongue on the specimen in the photo, then it's a legless lizard. Alternatively, the vent will be positioned less than halfway along the body and the ventral scales will be an equivalent size to the dorsal scales and not run the width of the belly.

Blue

Globe, Unfortunately your humour is misplaced. We have been through this a number of times and there is a tacit agreement as welll as a request from the moderators (see sticky thread on this subject) to leave the sarcasm out of IDs. threads. The seroius of the message Waruikazi is putting across should not be diminished in any way.

Even with the blurry photo, generic ID of pygopod is obvious. I won't harp on about it but if you don't know, don't touch. That is how tragedies happen. A relocator thought it may be a python? :| Scary stuff. All up though, this thread has brought sunshine to my life!

 

[Bluetongue1]

TommtCheeks,
I am presuming the local snake catcher is practicing catch and release only, where identifying the species is not required. Even so, it would not hurt for him to attempt to learn to identify at least the venonmous snakes in his area. The commonest one is the Western Brown Snake, the juveniles of which look very like a number of local legless lizards - very similar to what you were handling. Should he ever get bitten, visual identification in conjunction with the venom detection kit used at hospitals, is very useful.

An excellent book for that area is "Reptiles and Frogs in the Bush: Southwestern Australia" by Brian Bush et al. Published by University of Western Australia Press. At $40 an excellent investment.

Blue

 

[r3ptilian]

It could possibly be a banded form of Delma Grayii (Side Barred Delma). They are found in that area.

 

[TommtCheeks]

You would be presuming right Blue, considering he usually gets calls for much larger and deadly snakes i can see how he got it wrong he did confirm that it wasnt venomus before i handeled it. He also told me many horror stories of people who get the shovel out before they give him a call. The more people educated on our wildlife the better i think. I let him know about the book and he told me he actually got his licence from brian bush or he held the class. I will deffinetly be getting a copy of his book now for myself

 

[fauce]

How can someone who got the ID so incredibly wrong safely know that it was non-venomous. Although he is probably a good guy etc, he needs to familiarise himself with things before he picks up any more snakes/lizards he is not 110% sure on the ID of.

 

[Bluetongue1]

Having had time to think about it and based on the extra info provided, I suspect that he said it belongs to the pygopod family, which probably sounded like he said python family.

Blue

 

[Firepac]

This thread is truly scary ...

 

[-Peter]

Having had time to think about it and based on the extra info provided, I suspect that he said it belongs to the pygopod family, which probably sounded like he said python family.

Blue

This sounds more likely.

 

[Echiopsis]

It could possibly be a banded form of Delma Grayii (Side Barred Delma). They are found in that area.

Congratulations for being the only person in this thread with decent eye sight. Its Delma grayii. The end.

 

[Bluetongue1]

Echiopsis, I take exception at you telling me I don't have decent eyesight. You wouldn't know, so why say it?

Ohhh. It's not really eyesight you are refering to at all, is it? It's how fantastic you are at identifying reptiles that you are really on about. What a shame you feel the need to stand on others to be seen and heard. Try standing on your own two feet and you might get the respect of more than just your mates.

Please put your skills to use and explain why the specimen pictured has dark banding on the top of the head, a feature reported by those that should know, as something they should not have. I would appreciate it.

Blue

 

[AUSHERP]

Looks like a hooded scaly to me. I too think that you mistook pygopod for python, any snake catcher, even catch and release can tell you at first glance that it isn't a python. As for not being venomous, I wouldn't take anyones word unless they could at least provide an ID on the animal. When I first looked at the pic I actually thought it was a juvie brown and was shocked to see it being freehandled like that.

 

[Echiopsis]

Echiopsis, I take exception at you telling me I don't have decent eyesight. You wouldn't know, so why say it?

Ohhh. It's not really eyesight you are refering to at all, is it? It's how fantastic you are at identifying reptiles that you are really on about. What a shame you feel the need to stand on others to be seen and heard. Try standing on your own two feet and you might get the respect of more than just your mates.

Please put your skills to use and explain why the specimen pictured has dark banding on the top of the head, a feature reported by those that should know, as something they should not have. I would appreciate it.

Blue

Have a read of the third edition of Wilson and Swan Blue, page 130. The image on page 131 is worth a look too. It is not a Pygopus, the head shape is wrong, the proportions are wrong, it clearly has a yellow venter and its far more slender than any of the Pygopus species. Its amazing what you learn in the field, you cant learn everything from books Blue. If you got out once in a while rather than sitting on APS and reading books you would be able to make a more informed call.

I dont need or want your respect, i have that from those that matter in the real world.

 

[moosenoose]

Crappest photo thus far on Aussie pythons.... well done! :lol:

 

[Bluetongue1]

Echiopsis,
I think you missed the point. You were arrogant and rude in the manner in which you put forward your ID. I did not question your abilities to make it, only the manner in which you did so. Totally unnecessary.

Have a read of the third edition of Wilson and Swan Blue, page 130. The image on page 131 is worth a look too. It is not a Pygopus, the head shape is wrong, the proportions are wrong, it clearly has a yellow venter and its far more slender than any of the Pygopus species. Its amazing what you learn in the field, you cant learn everything from books Blue. If you got out once in a while rather than sitting on APS and reading books you would be able to make a more informed call.

I dont need or want your respect, i have that from those that matter in the real world.

The point I would make is that having the respect of those that matter in the real world does NOT entitle you to be rude to others.

You refer me to a book to confirm your ID and then tell me I need to get out in the field more to learn how to ID.

Whatever herps I have come across in the field, I have not seen every reptile and amphibians species in all of their varied forms or the aberrantly marked individuals one gets from time to time.

You effectively know absolutely nothing about me and yet you reckon you can tell how much field experience I have had. That is the arrogance to which I referred earlier.

I was chasing reptiles with the likes of Neville Burns, Peter Rankin, Peter Harlow and others before you were born. I used help out with George and John Cann's snake show at La Perouse and often went back to the house for a cup of tea after the show. I have been frogging with John Barker and Gordon Grigg, before they published their book. I shall stop there... Suffice to say I think you presume too much.

You talk about using your eyes. How come you missed this post...

Small belly scales means it was not a snake. Therefore it was a pygopod (legless lizard). You can let your mate know that it was not a python. It had the head markings and shape and body form of the Delma genus but there appeared to be bands along the entire body. The only black-headed pygopod in Dongara that I know can sometimes appear banded is the Hooded Scaly-foot (Pygopus nigriceps), which is why I suggested it as a possibility. Having said that, they are normally a lot thicker bodied that the individual in the photo.

Blue

Yes, I did see the small patch of yellow below the lower laterals at the front end. The photo was hazy enough for me to not know for sure whether it actually was yellow or whether it was an artefact of refraction. While I have seen Delma grayii specimens, I have never seen one that had more than a dozen or so white bars coming up at the front end and never a dark head. I checked in several resources, including our local book by Brian Bush et al, but none mentioned complete body banding. The specimen was clearly emaciated and I felt that might explain the lack of Pygopus body shape – not that I was happy with the ID and this I did point out in another post. It was the nearest I could get to fitting the bill given the experience and information available to me.

Bottom line – you do not need to put others down simply because you know more than them.

Blue

 

[Echiopsis]

I think you missed the point. You were arrogant and rude in the manner in which you put forward your ID. I did not question your abilities to make it, only the manner in which you did so. Totally unnecessary.

Oh i think i get the point, its better to let you ramble, regurgitating information from your outdated texts than to make a decisive ID based on experience.

The point I would make is that having the respect of those that matter in the real world does NOT entitle you to be rude to others.

It was a general comment alluding to the inadequacy of the ID's in the thread, i attacked no one personally. Regardless of this you chose to take it personally and attack me in turn, feeling inadequate?

You refer me to a book to confirm your ID and then tell me I need to get out in the field more to learn how to ID.

Books obviously play a part, try not to play dumb eh? Its not clever or amusing. Books used in conjunction with field work will give you a broader knowledge and allow you to make calls based on characters other than colour/ pattern.

Whatever herps I have come across in the field, I have not seen every reptile and amphibians species in all of their varied forms or the aberrantly marked individuals one gets from time to time.

Neither have I. Ive never seen such a heavily marked grayii but i can confidently say that is what the animal in question is regardless of that fact.

You effectively know absolutely nothing about me and yet you reckon you can tell how much field experience I have had. That is the arrogance to which I referred earlier.

I was chasing reptiles with the likes of Neville Burns, Peter Rankin, Peter Harlow and others before you were born. I used help out with George and John Cann's snake show at La Perouse and often went back to the house for a cup of tea after the show. I have been frogging with John Barker and Gordon Grigg, before they published their book. I shall stop there... Suffice to say I think you presume too much.

Ive read enough of your long winded posts to notice you are speaking from what youve read, not what youve experienced in many (most?) cases. I also dont feel the need to list off all the people ive herped with to make myself feel better, im comfortable in my knowledge, a ******* contest gains me nothing.

You talk about using your eyes. How come you missed this post...
Yes, I did see the small patch of yellow below the lower laterals at the front end. The photo was hazy enough for me to not know for sure whether it actually was yellow or whether it was an artefact of refraction. While I have seen Delma grayii specimens, I have never seen one that had more than a dozen or so white bars coming up at the front end and never a dark head. I checked in several resources, including our local book by Brian Bush et al, but none mentioned complete body banding. The specimen was clearly emaciated and I felt that might explain the lack of Pygopus body shape – not that I was happy with the ID and this I did point out in another post. It was the nearest I could get to fitting the bill given the experience and information available to me.

Its the nearest you could get to ID, great, youve realised your limitations. I knew what the animal was and stated this. My comment about eye sight was written more in disgust and contempt for those making ridiculous calls as to the ID of the animal. Even then it was a general comment, not targeted at anyone in particular. Youve then taken the insult as a personal attack and attacked me in turn, playing your self appointed role as the morality police for APS.

Bottom line – you do not need to put others down simply because you know more than them.

Blue

No, i dont need to, but sometimes its necessary to disuade people from making stupid comments in future. By the looks you could do with a few extra comments aimed your way.

 

[Webless]

OMG .. You guys are all such Little Whiners.. This is hillarious.. and you call yourselves adults.. Bahahaha