Soda stream C02 gas euthanasia for rats

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montay

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Hi all, seeking advice re humane soda stream C02 gas euthanasia of rats. I understand that 3 pumps of the gas is sufficient, and any more than this can cause suffocation.
Tips and advice appreciated.
After thousands of dollars spent over the years, and with 10 large snakes + babies to feed, I am seriously considering breeding my own breeder feeders, but humane treatment is paramount.
 
Three pumps? An effective concentration of CO2 is dependent on the volume of the container you're using to euthanase them. Three pumps in a large plastic tub won't kill them. I put the rats into a plastic tub, put the tub into a large tough plastic bag, press almost all the air out of the tub and tie the tube from the Sodastream tightly with the neck of the bag. I use a brief squirt of gas, which puts them to sleep without gasping distress, and then add enough gas to fill the bag when I hear no movement. I leave them for about 15 minutes before opening the bag and laying the rats out to cool before freezing. If you flood them with a lot of gas while they are conscious, they will become very distressed before succumbing. Let them cool for 30+ minutes before bagging and freezing in single layers.

I actually like rats, and killing them is always something I'm reluctant to do...:(

Jamie
 
I agree Jamie.

Killing rats is, for me, the worst part of the hobby. I used to breed them but eventually found myself unable to do personally do it anymore. If that makes me a bleeding heart so be it. I now source from breeders when needed and keep a few as pets.
[MENTION=12425]montay[/MENTION], keep in mind that getting the euthanising method right is only part of what should be considered if humane treatment of your rats is paramount. There's also living and breeding conditions etc. Anyway, my apologies I'll get off my soap box now. Good luck if you choose to start keeping them, they're great fun!
 
Thanks to you both - yes, this is extremely difficult. I understand that rats are highly intelligent animals. I am nervous for a number of reasons: raising them and feeling attached to them; the actual act of killing them and causing them any distress (which would haunt me). I think that the only I could consider this it to work alongside somebody who is very experienced in raising them, and culling them. Even then, I'm not sure if I can do this.
 
Look if you've got doubts then you probably don't have the stomach for it and my advice would be to breed your snakes. One clutch of eggs should cover the feed bill easily for a year, and that way, you don't have to stress.
 
I started breeding rats about 2.5 years ago.
I've had them as pets for years, but I started breeding them because I have about 10 snakes, and I am working towards ensuring that all of the meat consumed in my house is humanely sourced. I don't have any issues with things dying or killing things, it's part of the natural order of things, but I don't see a need for any critter to suffer in the process.
I actually use a bicarb system. I have a 20l tub (killin' box), a 5L container (mixing chamber) and a 1.7L container. I pour vinegar into the 1.7L container, syphon it into the mixing chamber (already contains about a cup and a half of bicarb) with thin tubing so it's a very slow flow. the mixing chamber has a large tube coming from the top which is connected through the lid of the killin' box. as the mixing chamber fills up with co2, it goes through the tubing and into the killin' box, which has a small hole drilled into the lid to allow oxygen out as it fills with co2.
I worked out that it costs me less than $2 to kill a box of rats, doesn't matter if there's 1 or 10 rats in there, the formula's the same.
I used to exclusively use cervical dislocation, but tbh, the killin box is easier for me. Yes that makes me lazy, but it can be a darn sight quicker too, and is for the most part just as humane as a snapped neck.
 
I've never heard about this suffocating the animal by putting in too much CO2 thing. Sounds like misinformation to me.
At a very respected large zoo in Sydney, they fill a bag with rats (or mice), squeeze the air out, then fill it with CO2, then squeeze THAT air out and refill with CO2 and the bag will be almost entirely filled with CO2. Death comes pretty quickly at this point and any movement is just nerves twitching.
 
I've never heard about this suffocating the animal by putting in too much CO2 thing. Sounds like misinformation to me.
At a very respected large zoo in Sydney, they fill a bag with rats (or mice), squeeze the air out, then fill it with CO2, then squeeze THAT air out and refill with CO2 and the bag will be almost entirely filled with CO2. Death comes pretty quickly at this point and any movement is just nerves twitching.

Not quite sure what your first sentence means. If it refers to my suggestion of a low dose to start with, perhaps you haven't seen rats go into gasping shock when their O2 supply is cut off suddenly by a rapid influx of CO2, while they are fully conscious. Sure, it is relatively brief, but it's obviously very distressing for the rats until they become unconscious. In my case, it's not misinformation - I used to breed rats for sale until I decided it wasn't a fun thing for me - my considerations are based solely on actual experience. A low dose of CO2 to begin with upsets the gas balance in the killing container and puts the rats into a gentle torpor so that they're far less distressed when the killing dose is administered. Frankly I'm not really interested in the way others may do it, unless it's better than my way, but I know what works for me.

I still have a large number of rats which grow out to be far too large for my needs because I hate killing rats :(!

Jamie
 
I hate to be a bummer but I recently heard that CO2 is not a peaceful way for humans to go (other inert gases such as helium, nitrous are; CO2 is not)...

I always thought it was the kindest, most peaceful way for rats to go so I was pretty shocked when google came up with a bunch of sites that back it up.

Now I'm looking for a supplier who uses the spine snap method but it seems like everybody uses CO2 nowadays because it's so easy to believe that gas would be very peaceful for them... they look so peaceful when you buy them, how could it not be, right? :((((
 
Spine snapping can produce inconsistent results, depending upon the skill of the operator, whereas CO2 produces consistent results, even with inexperienced operators. Both methods are accepted by the ethics committees of most universities, research facilities and welfare organisations. I am sure you can find anecdotal evidence, including google, both supporting or condemning either method, however ethics committees need to rely upon science.
 
Spine snapping can produce inconsistent results, depending upon the skill of the operator, whereas CO2 produces consistent results, even with inexperienced operators. Both methods are accepted by the ethics committees of most universities, research facilities and welfare organisations. I am sure you can find anecdotal evidence, including google, both supporting or condemning either method, however ethics committees need to rely upon science.

As Wokka has pointed out the UWS, UNSW, UNE and the RSPCA regard the euthanasia of mammals i.e. Rats and Mice by the use of CO2 and cervical dislocation to be their only accepted humane way. And BTW: the way pythoninfinite introduces the CO2 to his tubs is the way the RSPCA finds to be the best, the results are twofold 1) the Rats don't suffer 2) because the Rats don't suffer there is no build up of Lactic Acid in the muscles which can cause the Rats to deteriorate quickly and start to smell bad (which is why some Rats bought from some pet shops have that awful odor when they are thawed), so personally i would rather go with the experts on this matter. :) ..................Ron
 
I went and got a soda stream today $105 later nearly died but I want a humane way to cull my rats. I only have the 1 snake but here in my town is small and only one place sells frozen and there real expensive. I used it today and found it a lot better than the baking soda imo
 
I've never heard about this suffocating the animal by putting in too much CO2 thing. Sounds like misinformation to me.
At a very respected large zoo in Sydney, they fill a bag with rats (or mice), squeeze the air out, then fill it with CO2, then squeeze THAT air out and refill with CO2 and the bag will be almost entirely filled with CO2. Death comes pretty quickly at this point and any movement is just nerves twitching.

Not sure if we're talking about the same 'very respected large zoo' or not, but a 'very respected large zoo in Sydney' that I volunteer at puts the mice in a plastic bag, pumps in two pumps of CO2 (leaving more oxygen than CO2) and leaves them to doze off for about 30 mins- they make sure they're dead then they're frozen- putting only CO2 DOES cause pain as it burns the interior lining of their lungs- a small amount and they won't even notice it.
 
I hate to be a bummer but I recently heard that CO2 is not a peaceful way for humans to go (other inert gases such as helium, nitrous are; CO2 is not)...

I always thought it was the kindest, most peaceful way for rats to go so I was pretty shocked when google came up with a bunch of sites that back it up.

Now I'm looking for a supplier who uses the spine snap method but it seems like everybody uses CO2 nowadays because it's so easy to believe that gas would be very peaceful for them... they look so peaceful when you buy them, how could it not be, right? :((((

You are correct in part. As with many other things, if it is done incorrectly, it can be distressing and inhumane, but so can cervical dislocation. I have performed an incomplete (and therefore inhumane) cervical dislocation, most certainly not intentionally, and it was very unpleasant.

I have also improperly used the co2 method. I had put a big batch of rats through, and once they were unconscious had flooded the chamber with co2, but had to leave the house unexpectedly for about 45 minutes. When I got home I immediately started bagging them up, and there at the bottom mostly underneath a rather large male, was one of the young males. He was conscious, breathing quite rapidly, but did not appear distressed. He came out of his ordeal none the worse for wear, got named Jesus and went on to live a decent healthy life. I figured he gets a free pass to live as a pet if he chuck norrised death like that.
 
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