Still hiding

[Bl69aze]

I don’t know I was told they don’t need a hide although they will utilise it,,, where would you hide if you were a snake to give the best possible chance of selection. I’d be snuggling in that hide. Don’t even get a perch at my place but I use small hides in my cb 70s just got 111 dollars worth if pvc black medium plastic hides to put over their hot spot

i use a quadrant jumbo 9L with some dowel in it, and coffee jar lids with a hole cut out for hatchies

i just took out the substrate and put paper in, i think my substrate was too deep for the heat mat and it was un even temps so thermostat was going nuts
[doublepost=1527662608,1527662445][/doublepost]

Cruising around

 

[baker]

Just sounds like your snake is doing what a normal healthy snake will do. All of my snakes do the exact same thing. Why move around unnecessarily exposing yourself to potential predators and wasting energy when you can just sit in a nice warm secure hide? If I was a snake I know which I'd prefer. Looking at your enclosure I'd recommend adding a few different things if you want your python to get active. More branches along with a pile of leaf litter or anything with a new scent are great at getting snakes exploring (doesn't last long until they go and curl up in a hide again though).

Cheers, Cameron

 

[Bl69aze]

Just sounds like your snake is doing what a normal healthy snake will do. All of my snakes do the exact same thing. Why move around unnecessarily exposing yourself to potential predators and wasting energy when you can just sit in a nice warm secure hide? If I was a snake I know which I'd prefer. Looking at your enclosure I'd recommend adding a few different things if you want your python to get active. More branches along with a pile of leaf litter or anything with a new scent are great at getting snakes exploring (doesn't last long until they go and curl up in a hide again though).

Cheers, Cameron

thanks for the reply Cameron

I give my Coastal some smells around his enclosure every couple of weeks, as he is quite active and happy to move about.
I guess I just feel as if she is stressed or something so she would rather feel safe where she cant see out (shes in the side where you can't see her) and the temps worry me so i feel i need to change them, but to do that involves moving her and I dont want to stress her out more if she already is... unfortunately she pooped and i found it soaked right to the bottom, so i just said screw it with the substrate and put her in her old click clack under a table where it was nice and dark, and placed paper down.
hopefully the temps will be more stable as its even now rather than she was digging into the substrate causing uneven heat spots.

edit: just ordered one of these, i have a larger one for my ccp, and he enjoys it so yea better than janky muesli boxes

edit edit: GAH now shes just moving the box all around the place haha

Edit edit edit: I covered her enclosure with some towels and she’s moving around quite alot
[doublepost=1527836042,1527666868][/doublepost]I’ve cracked the code.

I’ve covered her enclosure with towels and she seems to be getting a bit better temps... but most importantly she is coming out at night, even just poking a 5th of her body out.

I suppose it was a environmental thing as there is quite a lot going on around where her enclosure is

 

[Bluetongue1]

@Bl69aze. The advice @Shire pythons provided is spot on. Darwins come from a warmer provenance that most carpets and therefore require a slightly higher temperature. A basking spot of 36 degrees and a hot end air temp of 30 – 32 degrees is appropriate. Heating is not required at night unless cage temps consistently drop below 20 degrees in summer or 15 degrees in winter. If night heating is required, then use a low wattage heat mat or heat cord to raise the air temperature to around 20 degrees.

Pythons are primarily nocturnal. They warm themselves during the day, many by basking in sunshine. This is to raise their body temperature to allow normal physiological functioning. They then behave to conserve the heat absorbed so they can be active at night. They do this by coiling up to reduce their outer surface area, which gives off heat to their surroundings. Any air around them will be heat up from their warmer bodies. If this air can move freely it will take that heat away with it. Same principal as the wind chill factor. By trapping the warmed air, they can better conserve heat. So they seek tight retreats where they can do this, be that hollows in trees or terrestrial retreats. Hides provided by keepers should reflect this.

In the wild, carpets mate in late autumn and winter (May to August). This is also their period of brumation, so how is this possible? On sunny winter days pythons bask to raise their body temperature. Some will then mate during the day. Others retire and conserve body heat, to emerge at night to hopefully mate before they get too cold.
Pythons do not eat during this period as they cannot be assured of sufficient on-going body temperature to digest a meal before it rots in their gut. So all feeding should cease at least two weeks before beginning cooling.

Shire pythons’ posts translated the above into practical captive management. Following is a simple way to put into practice his cooling suggestions:
· Use one hour changes, between;
· Decrease March ® June;
· Increase September ® November.

I’ll leave it there for now, but there are a few more points to be made on if time permits. In the meantime I hope the background explanation to captive management practices provided helps to clarify what has to be done, how and why.

 

[Bl69aze]

@Bl69aze. The advice @Shire pythons provided is spot on. Darwins come from a warmer provenance that most carpets and therefore require a slightly higher temperature. A basking spot of 36 degrees and a hot end air temp of 30 – 32 degrees is appropriate. Heating is not required at night unless cage temps consistently drop below 20 degrees in summer or 15 degrees in winter. If night heating is required, then use a low wattage heat mat or heat cord to raise the air temperature to around 20 degrees.

Pythons are primarily nocturnal. They warm themselves during the day, many by basking in sunshine. This is to raise their body temperature to allow normal physiological functioning. They then behave to conserve the heat absorbed so they can be active at night. They do this by coiling up to reduce their outer surface area, which gives off heat to their surroundings. Any air around them will be heat up from their warmer bodies. If this air can move freely it will take that heat away with it. Same principal as the wind chill factor. By trapping the warmed air, they can better conserve heat. So they seek tight retreats where they can do this, be that hollows in trees or terrestrial retreats. Hides provided by keepers should reflect this.

In the wild, carpets mate in late autumn and winter (May to August). This is also their period of brumation, so how is this possible? On sunny winter days pythons bask to raise their body temperature. Some will then mate during the day. Others retire and conserve body heat, to emerge at night to hopefully mate before they get too cold.
Pythons do not eat during this period as they cannot be assured of sufficient on-going body temperature to digest a meal before it rots in their gut. So all feeding should cease at least two weeks before beginning cooling.

Shire pythons’ posts translated the above into practical captive management. Following is a simple way to put into practice his cooling suggestions:
· Use one hour changes, between;
· Decrease March ® June;
· Increase September ® November.

I’ll leave it there for now, but there are a few more points to be made on if time permits. In the meantime I hope the background explanation to captive management practices provided helps to clarify what has to be done, how and why.

How would they get a 36° Hotspot on a 13° day, I need to check out my mat but it seems to struggle to get near that, as when it hits 34-35 it drops back to 30

 

[Flaviemys purvisi]

I'm using a 20w heat cord alone which gets above 40°. Your mat must be dodgy or like 5w.

 

[Shire pythons]

Cheers @Bluetongue1 . My thoughts exactly , you are clearly more patient than me !
@BI69aze dont think you would get a 13 degree day in darwin mate ?

 

[Bl69aze]

Cheers @Bluetongue1 . My thoughts exactly , you are clearly more patient than me !
@BI69aze dont think you would get a 13 degree day in darwin mate ?

Mis worded what I was thinking, I meant, if you don’t provide night time heat, how are they getting their normal temps

 

[Shire pythons]

Mis worded what I was thinking, I meant, if you don’t provide night time heat, how are they getting their normal temps

All of the information regarding how snakes regulate their heat from day/night etc has been covered in detail in previous posts . But furthermore it gets down to about 17 degrees in darwin at night this time so unless you have your snakes in an extremely cold house i think you will be fine. Keep in mind if you have tank setup properly it should retain some heat once heat source if off. Especially if your hot spot has been around the 35degree mark all day it should retain some heat into the night .if you are really concerned about over night temps only go back to 12hrs heat in winter

 

[Scutellatus]

Mis worded what I was thinking, I meant, if you don’t provide night time heat, how are they getting their normal temps

There is no sun at night so no night time heat Simple. Stop stressing and let it cool.

In regard to always comparing wild snake conditions to captive conditions, people need to remember that unless it is 'Wild Caught' they don't need the extra few degrees of heat that Darwin experiences. They can and will become acclimated to the slighty lower temp without issue. Basically keep them at what the breeder kept them at because that is all they know. A wild darwin could live on the East Coast just as a wild Coastal could live in Darwin without any issues I believe.

 

[Shire pythons]

There is no sun at night so no night time heat Simple. Stop stressing and let it cool.

In regard to always comparing wild snake conditions to captive conditions, people need to remember that unless it is 'Wild Caught' they don't need the extra few degrees of heat that Darwin experiences. They can and will become acclimated to the slighty lower temp without issue. Basically keep them at what the breeder kept them at because that is all they know. A wild darwin could live on the East Coast just as a wild Coastal could live in Darwin without any issues I believe.

Agree with you 100% about the night heating thats a no brainer haha . I still firmly believe some species/locales should be kept differently to others . You wouldn keep a bhp same as diamond python vice versa etc

 

[Bl69aze]

Agree with you 100% about the night heating thats a no brainer haha . I still firmly believe some species/locales should be kept differently to others . You wouldn keep a bhp same as diamond python vice versa etc

Overnight the hot spot gets to around 20/21° anyway, starts warming up again when the morning sun comes through

 

[Shire pythons]

Sounds like you're all good then

 

[Bl69aze]

Sounds like you're all good then

Thanks for the help

Sorry if it seems like I wasn’t taking anything onboard, just trying to explain everything straight up was a bit hard lol

 

[Shire pythons]

All good mate all the best with your pythons

 

[Bluetongue1]

How would they get a 36° Hotspot on a 13° day, I need to check out my mat but it seems to struggle to get near that, as when it hits 34-35 it drops back to 30

Ever been to the beach and the sand is way too hot to walk on? How about walking barefoot on bitumen on the same sort of day? Ground surfaces absorb a lot of radiant energy and can reach temperatures more than double air temperature (in Celsius), especially if sheltered from cooling winds. So do other objects in the sun. As an example of how effective this can be, think about beach sand. It is light in colour, so reflects a lot of radiation, and is right next to the cooling mass of the sea.

Rocks, as does bitumen, can absorb a lot heat and cool down slowly. That’s why you can find reptiles basking on roads after dark.

…In regard to always comparing wild snake conditions to captive conditions, people need to remember that unless it is 'Wild Caught' they don't need the extra few degrees of heat that Darwin experiences. They can and will become acclimated to the slighty lower temp without issue. Basically keep them at what the breeder kept them at because that is all they know. A wild darwin could live on the East Coast just as a wild Coastal could live in Darwin without any issues I believe.

Ability to acclimatize is limited in ectotherms compared to endotherms. Nor are the effects provenance has on preferred body temperature (and tolerance limits) necessarily bred out of them over captive generations. The examples Shire pythons gave (Diamonds and BHPs) are clear proof of that.


What needs to be added is that once the basics are in place, one should observe and then tweak the temps, if need be, to suit the individual. In an enclosure with a good heat gradient, if the animal is spending nearly all its time at the warm end, then it is likely not hot enough. If it spends most of its time at the cool end, then it is likely too hot. So adjust accordingly.

All glass terrariums can be problematic in trying to establish a stable heat gradient, as the glass readily conducts and loses heat, and ventilation is via mesh on top, which readily allows heat loss through convection. If there is a problem, then insulation such styrene foam sheets can be applied to the sides and back, and some of the mesh covered. Of course the temperature dynamics of any enclosure will be influenced by the external ambient environment, which is a product of climate and exactly where in a house/property the cage is located.

 

[Scutellatus]

Ever been to the beach and the sand is way too hot to walk on? How about walking barefoot on bitumen on the same sort of day? Ground surfaces absorb a lot of radiant energy and can reach temperatures more than double air temperature (in Celsius), especially if sheltered from cooling winds. So do other objects in the sun. As an example of how effective this can be, think about beach sand. It is light in colour, so reflects a lot of radiation, and is right next to the cooling mass of the sea.

Rocks, as does bitumen, can absorb a lot heat and cool down slowly. That’s why you can find reptiles basking on roads after dark.

Ability to acclimatize is limited in ectotherms compared to endotherms. Nor are the effects provenance has on preferred body temperature (and tolerance limits) necessarily bred out of them over captive generations. The examples Shire pythons gave (Diamonds and BHPs) are clear proof of that.


What needs to be added is that once the basics are in place, one should observe and then tweak the temps, if need be, to suit the individual. In an enclosure with a good heat gradient, if the animal is spending nearly all its time at the warm end, then it is likely not hot enough. If it spends most of its time at the cool end, then it is likely too hot. So adjust accordingly.

All glass terrariums can be problematic in trying to establish a stable heat gradient, as the glass readily conducts and loses heat, and ventilation is via mesh on top, which readily allows heat loss through convection. If there is a problem, then insulation such styrene foam sheets can be applied to the sides and back, and some of the mesh covered. Of course the temperature dynamics of any enclosure will be influenced by the external ambient environment, which is a product of climate and exactly where in a house/property the cage is located.

When a wild snake has a low thirty degree day their basking spot is in the mid to high 50's (they will bask on that heat), when a captive snake has a low 30 degree day their hot spot is low 30 and no higher due to thermostats.
I think they have already acclimated a lot more than you are giving them credit for Mike. If they couldn't acclimate then you wouldn't be able to take them out of their home range without mimicking their conditions perfectly, which we are far from doing with a couple of heat sources etc.

 

[Bluetongue1]

@Scutellatus .
There is a difference between preferred body temperature and tolerance limits. Because a snake can tolerate and survive for some considerable time at a lower than desired temperature, does not mean that temperature is good for its welfare in the long term when compared to reaching its preferred temperature. Unlike excessive temperatures, those that are too low take time to show their adverse effects. It predisposes snakes to contracting secondary illnesses, which can be and are often fatal. I already explained how to let the snake tell you what its preferred temperature is, so why would you not want to maintain it at that temperature? For what it’s worth “Australian Pythons” by Mike Swan et al, states in the forward that an example of a good temperature gradient is about 35 degrees directly below the heat source to about 25 degrees at the furthest most corner of the enclosure. And that is generalising for Oz pythons. With all due respect to others’ opinions Rob, I am given to trusting their collective expertise rather than not.

 

[Bl69aze]

So after putting some towels over her hide, she’s out and about a lot more now, even just sticking her head out.