Termite Specialist Geckos

[Pilbarensis]

Hey Guys,
I was just wondering about the feeding of the some of the termite specialist geckos such as Diplodactylus conspicillatus & Rhynchoedura species. I was wondering what the deal was with feeding them as in quantity per feed and such. However I'm really curious as to know if ants will be accepted by these species as an alternative to termites? As I don't have a supply of termites but I do have various supplies of ants if the time comes. Also are only certain types of ants accepted and such? Don't want to buy some of these awesome geckos then find out that they won't eat the type of ants I give them?

In terms of everything else I'd imagine it'd be the same as other Diplodactylus species?

Sorry guys I know you don't like these questions, just doesn't seem to be anything on ants being an alternate food source to termites.

Cheers, Scotty

 

[eipper]

Have a look in Danny Browns book I know he has maintained a number of termite specialists

 

[Pilbarensis]

Yeah, been meaning to get them. If anyone has it would you mind checking for me if that's alright? I've had a look at his husbandry sheets that are online and couldn't find anything regarding the use of ants as an alternative to termites.

 

[GeckoJosh]

Ants cannot be used

 

[Pilbarensis]

Damn, thanks GeckoJosh. Any particular reason or do the geckos just not go for them?

 

[SamNabz]

I have never heard of ants being an alternative food item to termites.

At the risk of sounding rude/blunt, if you do not have a steady supply of termites, then I strongly recommend you don't purchase conspics as it will be them that suffers, not you.

 

[Thyla]

From Geckodan's website,

D.conspicillatus (Fat Tailed Gecko) and D.pulcher are specialist termite feeders in thewild. Attempts to convert these species onto other foods have been variable in its results.
Some individuals will readily follow and strike small food items of similar size and
colour to termites (small waxmoth larvae and pinhead crickets). Other will actively
follow items but will fail to strike after sniffing the item. This suggests that scent may
play a partial role in food selection. Initially scenting alternative items with crushed
termites has resulted in better feeding responses. Weaning off scented food can then be
slowly implemented. Results can certainly be frustrating at times, but captive bred
individuals are faster to learn than wild caught specimens. If available, termites are
certainly far superior and greedily eaten. Due to the poor storage qualities of termites
(once removed from the nest) they will desiccate within 24 hours once in the lizard’s
enclosure and should therefore be fed at least twice weekly.

And another relevant quote from his book,

Adult caught Beaked Geckos Rhynchoedura sp. are also stubbornly addicted to termites and, in my collection, have steadfastly refused to accept any other food items. Surprisingly, hatchlings will readily accept pinhead crickets and go on to accept small crickets as adults. However, these individuals should also be provided with termites on occasion to ensure their long-term survival-crickets seem to lack an important nutritional component that termites provide and longevity on an all cricket diet is much shorter than when termites are utilised. Oddly, the Fine-faced Gecko D. pulcher-another specialist termite feeder-will readily accept crickets with few problems and seem to have limited long-term growth issues.

Hope this helps.


References:
Dr. D. Brown., The Care and Husbandry of Diplodactylus Geckoes. Geckodan ? Danny Brown ? Welcome.
Dr. D. Brown., 2012. A Guide to Australian Geckos & Pygopods in Captivity. Reptile Publications. 352p.

 

[Pilbarensis]

@SamNabz - Don't worry, I know that. I wasn't planning on getting them unless ants were a viable option. Animals always come first.

@Thyla - Thanks for the help.

 

[geckodan]

Like they said above (I need to learn to type faster)

Ant's certainly don't work. Although they are similar in shape, that's where they draw the line. The smell and taste are obviously different. Termites are essential for the long term survival of both Rhynchoedura and conspics. Although Rhynchy babies have been found to take pinhead crickets the growth rates are slower and they do not survive long past 6 months. There is some factor in termites that makes the difference. It is odd as other 'specialists' like squarrosus, klugei and pulcher have gone straight onto crickets and do well on them long term.

 

[Pilbarensis]

Certainly an interesting research topic. Thanks Geckodan.
So I'd assume no one supplies them? No one around VIC know of any termites nearby?

 

[geckodan]

Certainly an interesting research topic. Thanks Geckodan.
So I'd assume no one supplies them? No one around VIC know of any termites nearby?

Have a read of overseas tarantula forums like Arachnoboards or dendrobatid frog forums. there are numerous threads on methods of culturing termites.

 

[Pilbarensis]

Thanks, I guess we'll see how things go then.

 

[Elapidae1]

I wonder if it's simply a matter of high protein requirements for termite feeders.

 

[Chris]

In Melbourne you may find it tough getting a regular supply of termites, however if you want to pursue this I'd recommend you get friendly with a few pest controllers. Once removed from the colony termites will only remain alive for a few days (maybe a week or so if they have moisture, warmth & a food source) so you'll need a regular supply. If you were in Adelaide I could help you, especially this time of the year

Edit. As already stated, black ants are completely different to termites & would not be a substitute.

 

[GeckoJosh]

If you were near bushland you can place pieces of untreated timber around the place, they will become infested in no time.

 

[Pilbarensis]

@CHRI5 - Thanks man, would make things easier if I was in Adelaide wouldn't it.
@GeckoJosh - That's actually what I was thinking, I guess we'll see what happens.

I'm more sort of worried about the possibility of escapees and such which could end up eating through the woodwork in the house, anyway to prevent this or do I just have to be really, really careful?

 

[Chris]

There's no danger of them eating your house, once they're removed from the colony they will eventually die.

 

[Justdragons]

Thats what i was going to say chri5, to sustain a colony you will need a queen otherwise they will last days if you luckey.. I used to do alot of termite insurance work and once they are in the sun or out of their own network of tubes they are done for..

 

[Pilbarensis]

Ah, well that's good to know. I guess I'll have to setup a termite colony out in the bush near us. I'll try to keep you guys post if you want, I reckon it'll be interesting to see how this turns out...

Oh also, part of my first question which people missed was HOW MANY termites per feed and how many times a week do I need to feed?

 

[SamNabz]

It would be interesting to get some input from keepers who have successfully cultured termites.

After much reading on various Arachnid and Dendrobatid forums, I came to the conclusion that termites could be successfully cultured in tubs if correctly set up - so away from their colony and even without a queen.

Here's an excerpt from another forum - "Here's the payoff: unlike most social insects, termites don't need a queen. Young termites will grow into what they call secondary reproductives and lay eggs."

However, in saying that, these are overseas forums so whether or not the same applies to Australian species of termite is not yet clear. Maybe geckodan (and others who have cultured/maintained termites) can shed some light on this.