The hobby & conservation

[Waterrat]

I didn't want to steal another thread (where do they came from) but the last few posts raised some questions and thoughts.

What conservation value do captive reptiles have? They can never be released to the wild (not the ones we keep and breed anyway), so how are we contributing to conservation of reptiles?
Availability and low prices discourage people from poaching (in some cases) but that's not much of an effort on our part, is it? Should we do more or is it the Wildlife Department's job to protect and conserve?
In reality, is "protection", "conservation status", "reserves and Parks" and other passive measures applied by wildlife departments doing anything for conservation of reptiles?

I am posting this as a topic for discussion, not as my personal ideas and opinions, so please .....

 

[Snakeluvver2]

They can never be released to the wild (not the ones we keep and breed anyway), so how are we contributing to conservation of reptiles?

Micheal
Is there away around this?
Could a small group of private breeders band together to breed certain species that are currently in captivity but rarer in the wild with government licensing?

I think this question has been asked a few times, sorry if it has.

Jannico

P.S I love this "hooby"

 

[mattmc]

theres always the way, as keepers of reptiles, and through reptile expos etc, you can express the need to conserve the animals in the wild, and if just one person clicks to this, they can spread their influence further, so in a sense the captivity could have some positive influence in the need of conservation efforts, now if only there was a disease like myxomatosis to kill off cane toads

---------- Post added 30-Dec-10 at 04:54 PM ----------

Micheal
Is there away around this?
Could a small group of private breeders band together to breed certain species that are currently in captivity but rarer in the wild with government licensing?

I think this question has been asked a few times, sorry if it has.

Jannico

P.S I love this "hooby"

that would be dangerous...let alone bad for genetic strength in a wild population i.m.o

 

[Guest]

I think the biggest role in conservation our reptiles play is awareness
the more people that keep reptiles and spread awareness the better the out come will be for our environment
I feel a child that was brought up with a pet snake,lizard, possum or wombat will always carry a deeper understanding for our animals than a child that had a pet goldfish or cat
keeping our native animals as pets is encouraging people to learn more about them and I think thats its rediculous that here in NSW we are allowed to keep a rabbit but not a sugar glider

 

[cadwallader]

i guess imo all the parks and protected areas all do help reptiles and unless a carpet python becomes endangered i guess we wont be keeping many rare sp. but then again the breeding techniques we use may help breed any endangered sp. that may be brought in to captivity.
there is also on growing pressure to do more for conservation but with the amount of budget cut they have received over the last say 5 years it can get hard at times.
but all i can say that i do for the conservation is swerve to miss them on the road and keep a lovely native garden

 

[waruikazi]

There is not alot of point to restocking unless the causes of the species decline are adressed. The only situation where restocking will work is if the cause of the decline in numbers is from people removing them from their habitat.

Micheal
Is there away around this?
Could a small group of private breeders band together to breed certain species that are currently in captivity but rarer in the wild with government licensing?

I think this question has been asked a few times, sorry if it has.

Jannico

P.S I love this "hooby"

 

[Snakeluvver2]

Thanks Waruikazi

There is not alot of point to restocking unless the causes of the species decline are adressed. The only situation where restocking will work is if the cause of the decline in numbers is from people removing them from their habitat.

 

[Waterrat]

Micheal
Is there away around this?
Could a small group of private breeders band together to breed certain species that are currently in captivity but rarer in the wild with government licensing?

It's a great idea and I trust it will eventuate one day but there is one or two stumbling blocks:
1/ The currently held reptiles hold no integrity because of all the selective breeding, hybridizing, morphing and so on within the hobby (this is not a criticism, just a fact). How can the wildlife authorities trust us?

2/ The genetic diversity in collections is most likely to be too small and compromised.

3/ A freshly acquired stock from the wild (certified, registered and marked) would be an absolute necessity.

4/ You said a "small group of private breeders ....". Can you imagine the uproar from those not included? Does the word "elitist" ring a bell?

That's how I see it anyway.

 

[ozziepythons]

Captive reptiles at zoos, etc are used as 'ambassadors' for conservation, and when used as part of demonstrations to the public. As far as a direct population rehabilitation from captive sources go, I know of one example. Inland carpets are bred in captivity and the progeny released at a site near Adelaide where they occured historically. I have some reservations about the project, which I won't go into here, but the few people I have spoken to have said its overall a move in the right direction.

 

[waruikazi]

I wonder if Greg Miles is still reading the forum... now sounds like a good time for him to make a few posts.

 

[hornet]

What conservation value do captive reptiles have? They can never be released to the wild (not the ones we keep and breed anyway), so how are we contributing to conservation of reptiles?

there are cases of species being bred by private keepers for release into the wild, take craig and gab and the mary river turtle, they release a good number of young turtles back into the wild each year and do regular surveys on the wild populations. I know thats probably the only example of private keepers directly contributing to conservation but its still a great example. I think the biggest effect the hobby has on conservation, as Farma said, is education

 

[waruikazi]

there are cases of species being bred by private keepers for release into the wild, take craig and gab and the mary river turtle, they release a good number of young turtles back into the wild each year and do regular surveys on the wild populations. I know thats probably the only example of private keepers directly contributing to conservation but its still a great example. I think the biggest effect the hobby has on conservation, as Farma said, is education

That in itself solves nothing and is no more than a bandaid approach. Fix the environment and there will be no need to restock.

 

[hornet]

I havent read anything that states the reason of this species low numbers but from what i have seen the mary river doesnt seem to be in decline, the water is good, plenty of plant life, aquatic life, invert life and quite a decent frog population in that area so i dont think its so much habitat destruction thats the cause of their status, as far as i know it takes then quite a while to reach breeding size and their eggs used to be harvested in numbers for "pet shop turtles". I may be wrong and probably are, as i said i havent really dont any research into the specifics

 

[Waterrat]

Just to spice it up a bit.

 

[waruikazi]

If the conditions are as you say then the turtle numbers will recover given tim eand when they are ready.

 

[hornet]

good point, i was thinking that mayb its a species that just naturally occurs in small numbers but then small numbers would be natural and no cause for concern so there has to be something thats threatening that species, i know the mary river dam was the biggest threat but there must be others

 

[stockhorse]

The problem with mary river turtles is cane toads,brigalow woma are being breed by australia zoo for release and there are several other projects taking place where the main problem is cane toads.
Keeping numbers up in the wild is a temporary measure to help keep a gene pool available until a permanent solution can be found.Most of the reasons causing a decline in numbers of wild reptiles are introduced species and a small percentage due to habitat reduction,again not mostly by man but by introduced species.
Unfortunately many people relate conservation with isolation thus the closure of many national parks to the public,this is making the situation worse as introduced plants and animals thrive and only when the situation is almost ireversable or infact extinction occurs do the authorities act.
As reptile keepers it would do us all well to pressure the govt to keep places (national parks) open to the general public as out of sight out of mind mentality seems to rule many govt dept and extreme conservationists(the fluoro greens).

 

[MrSpike]

there are cases of species being bred by private keepers for release into the wild, take craig and gab and the mary river turtle, they release a good number of young turtles back into the wild each year and do regular surveys on the wild populations. I know thats probably the only example of private keepers directly contributing to conservation but its still a great example. I think the biggest effect the hobby has on conservation, as Farma said, is education

They've done this under AFTCRA. Inc, as registered organisation. Not just two private turtle breeders.

 

[Waterrat]

The complexity of reptilian ecology is enormous and as Gordo said, fix the environment and things will be alright.
Unfortunately, we are not fixing the environment, we are stuffing it up, so there is little hope that things will be alright, not in the long term anyway.
So, if we are not instrumental in conservation of reptiles, should we feel guilty? Some things are just beyond our reach, lets live with it. After all, we can always say, "this is just a hobby", we don't have to be conservationists to enjoy keeping reptile as pets.
Wow, what did I say?

 

[Snakeluvver2]

Forgive my ignorance but why can't be expanded to other native animals other than turtles via another registered organization or even make another?

Although I agree with Micheal and Gordo in saying that it is a bandaid for a bullet wound.