Tubs or displays...

[Snowman]

No sorry mate... Still not high enough IMO, how much experience do you have keeping coastals in WA? Maybe just comment on reptiles you actually keep?

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IMO if the snake needs to be removed for "exercise" then the cage is too small, unfortunately the hobby has changed and it's moving more towards breeding the latest morph.

Probably a lot more than you by the sounds of it. I'm Victorian and lived in NSW as well. Still not sure why you are bangin on about coastals. Be good to see a picture of your coastal enclosure though. I'm kind of curious as to how much room you think they need. I keep an olive in an indoor aviary. But that's for my own viewing more than the snake. I think like most, you'll move to elapids when you get older or at least something interesting. It's alright, we're all at different levels and there's nothing wrong with that. As long as you keep learning.
Just remember the secret to life is not to worry what your neighbor is doing. Just worry about yourself

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I
quote snowman] But to the snake there is no difference if he has a card board box or a hide that looks like a rock.[unquote]

Totally agree so long as there is a hide for most species
Pity snakebytes dont see it the same way

Yep, can't say I agree with the way they do somethings. I only brought them up due to the size of tubs they have. And their success with keeping and breeding using tubs.
Ive found some wild caught carpets can be a pain to feed in vivs but will eat when I move them to tubs. I'm not sure why this is, but I'm leaning more towards stress and they feel more secure in large tubs. Eventually I've been able to move them to enclosures with a bit of time and patience and keep them feeding. A wild olive juvie I have was the same. And a wild night tiger was the opposite... I think experimenting, learning about and understanding these animals is the best part of keeping.

 

[champagne]

Don't really see why people keep referring to BHB reptiles? they keep very few australian reptiles and therefore can't really base the way they "successfully" keep exotic pythons to the how appropriate tubs are for australian reptiles. They don't provide hot spots only room heating, no hides, water bowls are too small to allow the animal to fully submerge if wanted, no climbing fixtures. I really see that the way the house their snake as very basic and not providing the best possible housing within reason but bare minimum standards, which is really just intensive snake farming.

 

[SouthSydney]

Where do the anti rack/tub brigade draw the line? The vast majority of snakes bred and sold in this hobby come from breeders using racks and tubs. If they believe its cruel or an unsatisfactory way to keep snakes, like it seems a lot of them do, do they (anti rack/tub mob) refuse to buy reptiles bred in these set ups? Just curious as to how they keep their conscience clean. Its a funny situation that is similar to all the people who shout and scream about smuggled reptiles or poachers, yet most of their collection originates from these people or animals.

 

[Boiga]

I use both tubs and enclosures and see the benefit and drawbacks with both.
A lot of people here seem to be generalising about their own misconceptions of what an enclosure or tub rack are, not all enclosures are naturalistic and not all tubs are baron. On that point I find the argument of natural type enclosures void, that is of course unless you grow living plants from the same endemic region of the snake in question, stimulate rainfall, provide multitudes of different hides etc.
You can hang as many fake vines in your enclosure as you like but it will not be naturalistic if it's in a melamine box with newspaper as substrate.

Personally all of my adult and juvenile Antaresia are kept in tub racks as are my younger Morelia and small elapids because they don't need anything else. My adult diamonds are kept in large aviaries which allow them to bask in full sun, partial sun or in complete darkness (They are endemic to my region). My other adult morelia are kept in large melamine enclosures which have simple newspaper substrate, a heat tile, water bowl, hide and climbing branch. My colubrids are kept in large melamine enclosures with live plants, grasses and natural logs. My boyds and angleheads are kept in large melamine enclosures with live plants, climbing branches, automatic misters.

My point is that just because I use tub racks doesn't mean I am lazy or don't care about the animal, it means I understand what they need and their husbandry requirements. Sticking a few decorations or rock wall in an enclosure doesn't make the enclosure adequate, understanding the animals you are keeping does.

 

[jacorin]

for the TUB users.

Do what is right for you,
as you will be criticized regardless.

 

[champagne]

Where do the anti rack/tub brigade draw the line? The vast majority of snakes bred and sold in this hobby come from breeders using racks and tubs. If they believe its cruel or an unsatisfactory way to keep snakes, like it seems a lot of them do, do they (anti rack/tub mob) refuse to buy reptiles bred in these set ups? Just curious as to how they keep their conscience clean. Its a funny situation that is similar to all the people who shout and scream about smuggled reptiles or poachers, yet most of their collection originates from these people or animals.

Who has said they are anti tubs? Everyone has said that tubs have there place and are even better to use in some cases ie hatchlings, yearlings. The problem is when people use undersized tubs that don't provide the basic requirements for that species.

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I use both tubs and enclosures and see the benefit and drawbacks with both.
A lot of people here seem to be generalising about their own misconceptions of what an enclosure or tub rack are, not all enclosures are naturalistic and not all tubs are baron. On that point I find the argument of natural type enclosures void, that is of course unless you grow living plants from the same endemic region of the snake in question, stimulate rainfall, provide multitudes of different hides etc.
You can hang as many fake vines in your enclosure as you like but it will not be naturalistic if it's in a melamine box with newspaper as substrate.

Personally all of my adult and juvenile Antaresia are kept in tub racks as are my younger Morelia and small elapids because they don't need anything else. My adult diamonds are kept in large aviaries which allow them to bask in full sun, partial sun or in complete darkness (They are endemic to my region). My other adult morelia are kept in large melamine enclosures which have simple newspaper substrate, a heat tile, water bowl, hide and climbing branch. My colubrids are kept in large melamine enclosures with live plants, grasses and natural logs. My boyds and angleheads are kept in large melamine enclosures with live plants, climbing branches, automatic misters.

My point is that just because I use tub racks doesn't mean I am lazy or don't care about the animal, it means I understand what they need and their husbandry requirements. Sticking a few decorations or rock wall in an enclosure doesn't make the enclosure adequate, understanding the animals you are keeping does.

And if you read the thread, everyone is say what you do is correct. The problem is when people put larger adult snakes in undersized tubs that don't provide basic requirements. Why don't you keep your adult morelia's in tubs? Snakebytes do and apparently they are the experts...

 

[Boiga]

Who has said they are anti tubs? Everyone has said that tubs have there place and are even better to use in some cases ie hatchlings, yearlings. The problem is when people use undersized tubs that don't provide the basic requirements for that species.

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And if you read the thread, everyone is say what you do is correct. The problem is when people put larger adult snakes in undersized tubs that don't provide basic requirements. Why don't you keep your adult morelia's in tubs? Snakebytes do and apparently they are the experts...

I think you need to reread a few comments on here regarding tubs.

 

[jbest]

I had some in bigger tubs. Super convenient but I cant stand not being able to see them all the time and watch them so new enclosures in progress.

 

[getarealdog]

you can set a enclosure up more naturally than a tub.. common sense says that

There's always an exception, kinda natural looking. These tubs are 2.1 square & 900m high.

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[andynic07]

Very good setups [MENTION=15646]getarealdog[/MENTION] but I think I would more class them as pits rather than tubs. Saying that the same principle could be used on a smaller scale for a tub. I think whether you have a pit or tub or enclosure they are all used to contain a reptile into a certain area for keeping purposes. Each type of containment can be either too small , the right size or larger than required for certain species and they all can be plain or decorated to simulate nature and it is the choice of the keeper which of these they use and how much decor that is used and as long as the reptile is healthy then I can't see a problem.

 

[Snowman]

There's always an exception, kinda natural looking. These tubs are 2.1 square & 900m high.

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Do you need extra heating for basking under the patio for your tigers or are they fine without it?

 

[getarealdog]

1 15 watt 4 meter heat cord running through 2 30cm tiles, 1 in the hide & 1 outside, no thermo, on timer.

 

[Snowman]

1 15 watt 4 meter heat cord running through 2 30cm tiles, 1 in the hide & 1 outside, no thermo, on timer.

Awesome. It's inspiring to see someone thinking out side the box (excuse the pun) and coming up with some great and simple ideas.

 

[getarealdog]

Very good setups @getarealdog but I think I would more class them as pits rather than tubs.

Oh no I also have pits ha ha.

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[andynic07]

I guess the point being is whatever choice of snake containment you choose it needs to be suitable and functional for you reptile. Very nice setups by the way.

 

[zulu]

I have both tubs and cages ,few large cages empty ,find many do better in smaller tubs ,they feel secure.

 

[Boiga]

Very good setups @getarealdog but I think I would more class them as pits rather than tubs.

Oh no I also have pits ha ha.

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I've seen these pics a few times now, such nice set ups.
If I had these I'd fill them full of small skink species

Nice work mate.

 

[NickGeee]

If only I had the money for displays...

 

[schoona]

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My reasoning for display. They have no hope of climbing etc in a plastic tub