undersized coastal

Discussion in 'Herp Help' started by JACK0, Aug 28, 2013.

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  1. JACK0

    JACK0 Not so new Member

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    hey guys I was wondering if anyone could give me any advice. in the picture bellow it my 8 month old coastal carpet python and im not 100% sure but she looks a little small for her age to me. shes the only juvenile snake that I have so I don't know to much about smaller snakes growth and I was hoping some of you guys could help me. is she a little small for her age? and if so what could I do to help her grow? Im feeding her once a week and shes just moved up from pinkies to fuzzies. any info would be appreciated thanks all :) snake.jpg
     
  2. sd1981

    sd1981 Well-Known Member

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    Bumping her food up will bring on growth spurts. If she's 8 months old, she'd be one of last seasons hatchies and was probably kept a bit small intentionally ( or possibly a slower starter).. All good as long as she's eating for you, she'll grow pretty quickly once you bump up food.. She's beautiful...
     
  3. Grogshla

    Grogshla Very Well-Known Member

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    he'll be right mate. Just keep feeding regularly and now that u have upsized he will be getting more nutrients. Pinkys are good but the snakes respond well once the feeders start having better developed bones, muscles and fur.
    Lovely snakey :)
     
  4. JACK0

    JACK0 Not so new Member

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    thanks guys, yes she just shed last night so shes looking great today, yeah I figured that once I started her on the fuzzies she would beef up a it, I just wasn't sure because ive seen pleanty of yearlings that are twice her size and thought she might have been a bit behind, should I feed her more often? or now that shes on fuzzies just keep her on one a week
     
  5. Grogshla

    Grogshla Very Well-Known Member

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    id keep her on one a week for now mate. In a few months you could probably give a fuzzy and a pinky then move her up from there.
     
  6. The_Geeza

    The_Geeza Suspended Banned

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    Feed 2 x fuzzies @ 5 days to get a bit of a growth spurt on... Month or so it will take weaners easily
     
  7. sevrum

    sevrum Well-Known Member

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    fuzzy rats is a perfect size for that coastal...if you are feeding fuzzy mice that is way to small.
     
  8. JACK0

    JACK0 Not so new Member

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    Yeah she's eating fuzzie rats, and are you sure that wouldn't be too much, well not too much because obviously they will eat whenever but that's not a bit often ?
     
  9. Schnecke

    Schnecke Well-Known Member

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    I don't think your Coastal is THAT undersize - some people just don't push the food into them (I've never pushed food into my Jungle boy and I'm happy with a slower growth rate) but pinkies don't offer very much nutritional value, so that's the reason for her slightly smaller size.

    Fuzzy Rats are perfect, once a week is perfect. Keep doing what you're doing :)

    I found that between 9-12 months my Jungle had a huge growth spurt - maybe your Coastal will do the same.
     
  10. A1SNAKETRADER

    A1SNAKETRADER Not so new Member

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    I really dont think your little fella is undersized. The larger ones at that age are either overfed or are just better feeders.I have a collection of around 100 snakes and always find that there are range of feeders from pigs which will eat anything on offer to those that can be problem feeders all their life. The problem feeders are the ones which if in the wild would not have made it. An interesting thing I just worked out a while ago with one of this years hatchling tanami womas was the feed conversion. I always weigh all feeds for my snakes to the gram so maintain an accurate record of what they have eaten. This woma hatchie was 38 grams at hatching and the other day when I weighed him he was 238grams. A gain of 200 grams. It consumed 330 grams of food in that time which meant that 60% of all food consumed was converted to growth. However if he had eaten only half the food for instance I doubt that his gain would have made half or 30%.When growing actively and well fed you are negating the gains over the simple maintenance requirement they have. Just my thoughts anyway
     
  11. JACK0

    JACK0 Not so new Member

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    Oh ok I see, we'll thanks for all your opinions guys its good to see the different views on it, I think I'm just going to keep feeding her one fuzzie rat a week and I reckon she will grow a bit better now that she is eating them because as you guys have said there is more to the fuzzies than pinkies
     
  12. Schnecke

    Schnecke Well-Known Member

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    You want to easily see that she has eaten, a nice "lump" is a good indication. I think I have an old example photo somewhere here...

    Yep, here you go - You want to see that they are nice and plump after a feed. You'd be amazed at the size of the rat they can fit through that little head.

    I have always gone thicker than his middle and about twice the width of his head (basically)


    IMG_1044.jpg
     
  13. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 Guest

    If the snake is healthy there is no need to play catch up. Another way to measure feeds is by weight. Feed 10% to 20% of the body weight once a week while juvenile and barring anything unforeseen it will grow well and remain healthy. It looks to be about 3/4 m long which I would also consider is within the normal range for its age.


    Pinkies contain all the required nutrients that snakes need and if anything, they are more readily digested due to SA:Volume ratio and the lack of fur and tough outer skin. The problem with their sustained use is the lack of roughage.


    The calculation on percentage of food incorporated into growth versus metabolic activity is actually more complicated. You need to measure all wastes produced, including water loss through breathing. You also need to determine the amount of carbohydrates and lipids used to provide energy as these are essentially turned into water. Protein used for energy can be determined from uric acid, urates and urine volumes. A nightmare! The good news is, it basically means you would have underestimated the food to growth conversion. And yes, snakes do have certain base metabolic activities and once they are catered for remaining food intake can be incorporated into growth.


    Blue
     
  14. yellowbeard

    yellowbeard Active Member

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    I would say she could easily take a hopper mouse once a week, even a weaner hard to tell with that picture so small.
     
  15. JACK0

    JACK0 Not so new Member

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    It's definitely way to hard to tell from this picture but she just seems to be a bit skinny it's not so much her length that concerns me it just seems like there's hardly any meat to her like I can feel and make out her bones almost, would it help you guys to determine if there's a problem or not if I get a close up photo?
     
  16. Snowman

    Snowman Guest

    Most juvies are skinny. Looks fine to me and they all grow at different rates depending on how large a feed item they get and how often they are fed. Most keepers tend to power feed, but its not something everyone has to do. There is nothing wrong with growing a small snake slowly and they tend to grow a lot slower in the wild.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2013
  17. Snowman

    Snowman Guest

    [​IMG]
    Juvie carpet hatched 16/2/13
     
  18. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 Guest

    A1snakesmackay, my sincere apologies. I completely forgot to mention the most important point. The data you are collecting on growth versus feeding, and no doubt in the context of known temperatures, is sadly lacking in the hobby and herpetology as a whole. I know Rick Shine has expressed a need for such information and I am hopeful that if we get a national body up and running one of the things they can do is collect, collate and publish such data. So often we read questions about what is normal and the silence in response is deafening!


    I congratulate you on what you are doing and absolutely encourage you to continue. Don't be surprised if at some time in the future I contact you about it. In the meantime, both thumbs up!


    Apology and regards,
    Blue
     
  19. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 Guest

    It is not really possible to assess body condition beyond a general impression from the picture provided. A python with good body condition will have a slight concavity along either side the vertebral column, running the length of the body. This results in the vertebral column being clearly visible but not excessively prominent. An overweight snake will lack the indentations and will have a rounded cross-section rather like a fire hose in use. An underweight snake will have a particularly angular and prominent vertebral column showing under the skin and will have an almost triangular cross-section, with clearly evident loose lateral skin and a rather hollow feel when they are picked up. Length is of very much secondary importance compared to body condition. If you ensure that your snake has a healthy body condition then growth and length will take care of themselves and will be healthy too.

    Blue
     
  20. A1SNAKETRADER

    A1SNAKETRADER Not so new Member

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    Hi Bluetongue.
    No offence taken at your remarks. Other than being able to compare food consumption to growth (on a weight basis) there is little that the average keeper can do that is more scientific. After quite a few years in the pig industry and primary production in general I have a fairy good knowledge of food conversion ratios, maintenance requirements and nutrition etc. It certainly is important to understand that there is much more involved to producing prime quality animals whether it be farm stock or reptiles but short of simple methods for the average keeper weight recording of animals on a regular basis compared to food consumed is the only real method available to them. Of course this all goes out the window as reptiles mature and then basically go onto a maintenance diet to give them their day to day nutritional requirements plus the small amount extra they still require for that lifelong growth they experience.

    Regards

    Tommo
     
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