Understanding Identification.

Discussion in 'Reptile and Amphibian Identification' started by Poggle, Dec 19, 2011.

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  1. Exotic_Doc

    Exotic_Doc Well-Known Member

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    People should seriously calm the hell down. Poggle was only trying to educate and help people learn. Eciopsis i learnt something from it, therefore it was educational no matter what you think. Farrrk man some people do my head in. What harm did it cause any of the people that are whinging? If it was educational then good, if it wasnt then at least he tried. I honestly do not understand some of the up tight flops on here.
     
  2. saratoga

    saratoga Well-Known Member

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    Gees. I thought it was a reasonable idea too although the photos were really a bit too bad to start with.

    There's a lot to be said for being able to make a reasonable guess of a snakes identity just from a fleeting glimpse or part of it's body. Yes, it's dangerous to draw conclusive identity in these situations but you can certainly rule out many species. You can't always have a snake in your hands or a great photo to count scales etc. Too many people get caught up in fine details; for most of the common species you should be able to tell what they are from a brief glimpse of the snake.... it's something birdo's describe as jizz. There are plenty of photos posted on this forum where the snakes are easily identifiable from what you can see in the images and yet people still take wild guesses based on who knows what. A thread where people explain why they have made such a guess is far more valuable as a learning tool.
     
  3. Echiopsis

    Echiopsis Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

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    Central QLD, near water.
     
  4. waruikazi

    waruikazi Legendary

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    I would actually really appreciate it if someone could tell me how to pick the difference between the death addders. Particularly antarcticus and praelongus.

    What makes these two praelongus, apart from their locations, Island off the Arnhem coast and Darwin respectively.

    [​IMG]

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  5. Echiopsis

    Echiopsis Well-Known Member

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    Suburban Perth, relocation. 1200mm.
    [​IMG]

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  6. Waterrat

    Waterrat Almost Legendary

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    You know what dude, in a fight, you can try as much as you can but if you come out second best it bloody hurts. Get real. Try to do number 2 six times a day - see how you go. So much for trying.
     
  7. jedi_339

    jedi_339 Well-Known Member

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    No idea to be honest, but interesting second picture, was that the actual colouration or was that covered in mud or something?
     
  8. waruikazi

    waruikazi Legendary

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    It was a little dirty and pretty dehydrated, it could have had a stuck shed too but they can be pretty grey like that here. They only flash their colours properly when you make them angry.
     
  9. Echiopsis

    Echiopsis Well-Known Member

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    As far as i know praelongus are more rugose than antarcticus with heavier keeling dorsally particularly on the head and neck. I havent seen praelongus but ive got a fair bit of experience with antarcticus, pyrrhus and wellsi. A antarcticus are quite smooth adders compared to the others.
     
  10. sammy09

    sammy09 Well-Known Member

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    i dare say keelback because of scales and being found near water
     
  11. cwebb

    cwebb Suspended Banned

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    Haahahahahahaahahahahhahahaahahaha
     
  12. SeaShell

    SeaShell Not so new Member

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    Western brown or "gwardar"... length, location, shape of head, colouration
     
  13. Poggle

    Poggle Very Well-Known Member

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    Echio and Michael i completely agree with you both, and pics were probably to crap to start with. But not all of us are always going to see perfect shots of snakes. I do appreciate those who saw what i was trying to do and i appreciate those who have better pics to post up.
     
  14. Exotic_Doc

    Exotic_Doc Well-Known Member

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    I understand your point i just dont get how the doing a number 2 six times a day compares to someone trying to educate and his method fails to be effective. If you try to do a good, and dont put it out the right way, doesnt mean people should jump down your throat. Anyways no point of arguing this, we'll agree to disagree.
     
  15. PilbaraPythons

    PilbaraPythons Very Well-Known Member

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    Poggle good on you for trying to stimulate abit of fun for a few.
    I guess a few here just might feel that snake id should be a thorough lesson and perhaps thats not a bad idea either even if completely on a different path that you had in mind.
    Are you interested in instigating that? I am sure a lot of people will help you with it and it will certainly will be educational.
     
  16. Waterrat

    Waterrat Almost Legendary

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    Doc, what I meant by this analogy is - sometimes no matter how hard you "try" it won't yield any sensible results. Looking at bad picture and "trying" to identify the snake can only result in wild guessing and I can't see that as being educational. Thorough lesson in IDing snakes as suggested by Dave is a much better way to educate but those lessons are readily available in books such as Compelte Guide to Reptiles of Australia (and others) and on some herp sites, where you not only see good pics showing the identification characters (which is an essential part) but it also gives detailed description, key to species, etc.. My question is, should we replicate it here on the forum?

    What has been proposed here would be fun to do and perhaps more useful if people would post pics of unusual colour morphs and explain what to look for. It has been done on previous page but it still leads to guessing. Lets face it, unless you're very experienced field herper, the best way to positively identify species is by following the ID protocol. i.e. keying out the specimen and that's impossible to do from a photograph.
     
  17. -Peter

    -Peter Guest

    I disagree Doc, if you try to stand on other peoples shoulders be prepared to be pulled down. The OP came came a cross as a bit of a wind up.
    I dont know if that was the intent or not. Perhaps a less didactic title and a bit less hubris.
     
  18. Ramsayi

    Ramsayi Very Well-Known Member APS Veteran

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    I still don't understand what the op was trying to achieve.It's a bit like poking someone in the eyes then asking them to ID a critter.
     
  19. PilbaraPythons

    PilbaraPythons Very Well-Known Member

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    Michael
    I still think you can teach a lot of important and helpful ID characteristics that aren’t usually layed out in a comparative way in books that have Scalation keys for species. Like for example ID books will not point out that single sub-caudals indicate live bearers so rule out the following species etc. Or keeled scales rules out the following species and an odd shaped large dorsal scale means it can be only these particular species. I am sure you know what I am getting at.
     
  20. Poggle

    Poggle Very Well-Known Member

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    I do apologise for any who i have offended it was not intentional. I was going to add more photo's of snakes in wild and ID these herps. It could have been done better but that was my purpose. Alot of people will look to these threads for assistance in ID'ing herps. I guess i thought i could assist fill that void. Fail. Anyways not offended by the least.
     
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