Update on ACT herp laws ??

[OzDAZ]

Here is an updated version of the herp laws, parks and wildlife have deemed suited to the ACT.
Sorry bout the size of the post, but my question is, under category B, the license I hold, Olives, Jungles, BHP's and other fairly commonly available pythons seem fall under CAT#C license, can you see any reason why some pythons are CAT#B and some C# As I do want to get a python eventually that isnt listed in the B)cat# and I dont want to spend 2 years keeping lizards to qualify nor have to find references ( the fewer people round my area that know Im a keeper the better, in my eyes).
Also what about RBB snakes, how do you construe the venomous snake part, and whats comercially available anti-venom, can you buy it or does the local hospital have to stock it in order to keep an elapid :?: :?:

CATEGORY A refers to captive-bred animals that can be kept by individuals with no prior experience in keeping such animals. These include species considered relatively easy to maintain, regularly bred in captivity and suited to the Canberra climate (discussions about the term Canberra climate - consider rewording to "adapt readily to).

General Requirements

exempt reptiles under the Nature Conservation Act obtained from a legal source
easy to keep and maintain, regularly breed in captivity and suited to the ACT environment
no restrictions on trading
venomous reptiles are prohibited
Pre-keeping requirements

nil
strongly advise reference to associated literature, reptile association or experienced keeper
Species covered - Category A

Chelidae
Common long-necked Turtle Chelodina longicollis
(group discussed minimum size and agreed not required, also address feeding concerns/issues in facts sheet)

Murray Turtle (moved to A from B) Emydura macquarii

Scincidae
Eastern Blue-tongued lizard
Blotched Blue-tongued lizard
Cunningham's Skink
White's Skink (moved to A from B)

Tiliqua scincoides
Tiliqua nigrolutea
Egernia cunninghami

Agamidae
Gippsland Water Dragon
Bearded Dragon
Inland Bearded Dragon
Tree Dragon (Jacky Lizard)
Gippsland Water Dragon (moved to A from B)

Physignathus lesueurii howitti from B
Pogona barbata
Pogona vitticeps
Amphibolurus muricatus
Amphibians List to be developed

CATEGORY B includes species of captive-bred animals which may be held for hobby purposes by experienced amateurs with at least two years experience in keeping one or more species from a family in Category A (or can demonstrate relevant experience/knowledge. Able to demonstrate for each species or keep one species from Category B for 6 months prior to applying for another Cat B species).

General Requirements

reptiles which require some specialised husbandry skills and are more difficult to maintain
not necessarily adapted to the ACT environment
disposal of any Category B animal will require the approval of the Conservator of Flora and Fauna
venomous reptiles are prohibited
Pre-keeping requirements


must be 15 years of age or over
must have had experience in keeping one or more of the Category A animals for at least 2 years
Species covered - Category B

Agamidae
Mountain Dragon
Eastern Water Dragon Amphibolurus diemensis
Physignathus lesueurii lesueurii

Scincidae
Common Grass Skink
Delicate Skink
Black Rock Skink
White's Skink
Lampropholis guichenoti
Lampropholis delicata
Egernia saxatilis
Egernia whitii to cat.A
Southern Water Skink
Mountain Water Skink
Eulamprus heatwolei
Eulamprus tympanum

Boidae
Children's Python
Spotted Python
Stimson's Python
Diamond Python
Carpet Python
Centralian Python
Antaresia childreni to B2
Antaresia maculosis to B2
Antaresia stimsoni to B2
Morelia spilota ssp.spilota to B1
Morelia spilota ssp variegata to B1
Morelia bredli to B1

Varanidae
Ridge-tailed Monitor
Black-headed Monitor
Varanus acanthurus
Varanus tristis

CATEGORY C refers to captive-bred animals suitable for keeping for hobby purposes for highly experienced herpetologists. Applicants must have at least one year experience with keeping Category B species and two years experience at keeping Category A species.

General Requirements

includes species of captive bred animals which require very specialised husbandry skills and are difficult to maintain
require an experienced keeper
not necessarily adapted to the ACT environment
disposal of any Category C animal will require the approval of the Conservator or Flora and Fauna
venomous reptiles are prohibited where no commercial antivenin is available
venomous reptiles must be kept in very secure facilities
venomous reptiles will be required to have at least one set of warning signs placed at entrances to the area where the reptiles are housed
Pre-keeping requirements

must be 18 years of age or over
must have had experience in keeping one or more of the Category A animals for 2 years
must have had experience in keeping one or more of the Category B animals for at least 1 year
must provide two written references from people who can attest to the applicant's ability, knowledge and experience in the handling of venomous snakes. These referees must hold a licence to keep Category C animals or be a recognised herpetologist
where an applicant is moving to the ACT and importing Category C animals - consideration will be given to prior keeping experience and relevant State/Territory licences
Species covered - Category C

Agamidae
Southern Angle-Headed Dragon Gonocephalus spinipes

Chelidae
Broad-shelled River Turtle Chelodina expansa

Gekkonidae
Prickly Gecko
Thick-tailed Gecko
Robust Velvet Gecko
Tryon's Velvet Gecko
Southern leaf-tailed Gecko
Marbled Gecko
Stone Gecko Heteronotia binoei
Underwoodisaurus milii to cat. B
Oedura robusta to cat. B
Oedura tryoni to cat. B
Phyllurus platurus
Phyllodactylus marmoratus to cat. B
Diplodactylus vittatus to cat. B

Pygopodidae
Common Scaly-foot
Inornate Legless Lizard
Black-headed Scaly Foot Pygopus lepidopodus
Delma inornata
Pygopus nigriceps

Agamidae
Frill-necked lizard Chlamydosaurus kingi

Varanidae
Spotted Tree Monitor
Gould's Monitor (Sand Monitor) Varanus scalaris
Varanus gouldii

Scincidae
Eastern Water Skink
Tree Skink
Land Mullet
Pink Tongued Skink
Centralian Blue-tongue
Western Blue-tongue Eulamprus quoyii
Egernia striolata
Egernia major remain in cat.C
Tiliqua gerrardii to cat. B2
Tiliqua multifasciata
Tiliqua occipitalis

Boidae
Black-headed Python
Bredl's Python
Woma
Water Python
Olive Python Aspidites melanocephalus
Morelia bredli to cat. B1
Aspidites ramsayi
Liasis fuscus to cat.B2
Liasis olivaceus adult size problems.


Colubridae

Keelback
Brown Tree Snake
Common Tree Snake
Slaty-grey Snake Tropidonophis mairii
Boiga irregularis
Dendrelaphis punctulata
Stegonotus cucullatus

Mildly venomous species list to be developed

CATEGORY D (Education, Scientific or Special application)

General Requirements (Education/Scientific)

eligible to have reptiles from Category A - C, meeting the necessary pre-requisites of any category. Except if restrictions indicated.
eligible to have animals from Category D (Special application), meeting the necessary pre-requisites of that application. Except if restrictions indicated
animals must be kept in a recognised facility. Or if kept by an employee of that facility at a private residence, must be kept with the knowledge and written approval of the facility. Plus have a scientific or educational project approval by the Conservator of Flora and Fauna
animals must be kept in accordance with an animal welfare ethics committee approval
venomous reptiles are not permitted for educational purposes
approval to take non venomous or venomous reptiles from the wild may be granted for scientific purposes
approval to take non venomous or venomous reptiles from the wild, for limited periods, may be granted for making photographic records for educational or scientific purposes
approval to present or exhibit live captive specimens at reptile group meetings for educational or husbandry purposes,without an individual educational authorisation, will be granted as required.
(Special Application)

the purpose of this sub-category is to deal with applications not considered under any other category. These can be for unlisted species or special circumstances
applicants for a Category D (Special application) licence must hold a Category C licence or be able to establish that the species should be in a lesser category
the onus within this category is for the applicant to prove beyond doubt that all aspects of their application is technically sound, conservationally ethical and justified :roll: :roll:

I see problems down the track, if I can get a CAT-C# and want to breed, does it seem that way to you in comparison to other states :?: , I get the impression the ACT is far more legislated in the Herp area than else where :?: :wink:

OZ

Making Easter Eggs, or a possible answer to fussy eaters, best of both worlds, if anyone find some of these offsprings please let me know :lol: :roll:

 

[Administrator]

Please submit as article

 

[OzDAZ]

The reason I posted such a large chunk of information is there are some members here that have kept python varieties from CAT#B and C#, and what I was looking for is feedback on weather there is a justifiable increase in keeping and husbandry skills required to go from say a Spotted or Diamond python (Cat#B) to an Olive or a BHP which are another rung up the ladder (Cat#C). Or basically which pythons are high maintenance and which are not. I just trying to grasp some logic from the list :?:
Sorry bout the post getting alittle out of hand.

OZ

 

[Nicole]

I don't think your post is getting out of hand at all OzDaz, it's really interesting.

I think the laws regarding ACT are pretty harsh actually.
I have just the regular old garden variety Class 1 NSW license, and have both a Spotted and an Olive... the girls are very young, so I don't have much experience, but here is my two-cents worth. Husbandry is the same just on a smaller vs larger scale so far. The big difference I would say is handling. The Olive is a little snappy, so I make sure she gets quality time devoted to her handling so I can quiet her down before she gets huge. Even now, and more so when she has grown, I do and will give her my full attention when she is outside the enclosure, whereas with the spotted, I know I only have to keep half an eye on her, she's very placid and happy to be held, (and after all, even if she wasn't what's the worst she could do?), but Olives get to have very BIG teeth Handling I know will be very different, especially when the Olive gets bigger, but my partner is always there when I need an extra hand because mine are full of snakes, so that will make it a fair bit easier.

I certainly don't feel like the Olive is too much for me with my limited experience. I think the ACT laws are pretty harsh. Any adult sensible person willing to do the reasearch and learn all they can, and who then uses common sense can be a pretty competent keeper of Olives in my opinion.

BHPs I have heard are often difficult to wean onto mice/rats, so that might be a difference in husbandry there. Still if you get them them after they are eating nicely, I don't think husbandry would be significantly different, but I can't really comment, as I have no experience with them.

JMO, lets see what the other guys think?

 

[Alexahnder]

In my opinion- harsh, it is news to me that highly experienced herpetologist are the only people able to keep eastern Water Skinks!

 

[Administrator]

The reason I posted such a large chunk of information is there are some members...

I don't mind that you have posted it, I would just like it to also be an article.

 

[africancichlidau]

Hyar Hyar SJ old chap, I reckon it would make a great article too

 

[OzDAZ]

I'm a bit lost on the "Article" idea, do you mean a write-up on how the ACT herp laws don?t make a great deal of sense, (translate SUCK).
Id be happy to give it a go, but what are we talking about? A run down of the laws here in ACT compared to other states, or to try and find the logic in them.
I just have more questions than answers, like husbandry skills needed from python to python, personally I don?t think there is a huge degree of difference, obviously different species have there own individual idiosyncrasies, but that?s just a case of doing your homework on the type of snake you want.
Id like to here Pythonss Paul?s take on the different levels of keeping skills required between the B# and C# Categories as he has been round the block with different species.
Id be happy to find out about the elapid (venomous) side of things, like the antivenin availability guidelines etc.
If I give it a go, I just want to make sure im answering questions and providing useful or interesting information rather than leaving more questions than answers.

Point me in the right direction guys, and ill give it a go. I just feel a bit intimidated as I never written an article, and don?t want to waste peoples time and end up looking like a dick :!: or maybe that should read, an even bigger dick.


OZ

 

[Hawkeye]

Umm who wrote these categories?

Just that I noticed a Centralian Python is cat B and a Bredls python is a Cat C and last time I checked (about 30 sec ago) they are the same species.

Maybe you should point little "flaws" out to them or move to NSW where at least the categories make a little more sense.

Cheers Hawkeye
:?

 

[africancichlidau]

Yeah I spotted that one too Hawks, perhaps Little Johnny Howard wrote them ?

 

[Hawkeye]

Oh so the original is in crayon then? :lol: :lol:

Cheers Hawkeye

 

[Nicole]

3 of us spotted that one, we can't all be wrong...

I still stand by my policy on Canberra. Enter Canberra, go directly to the National Gallery, finish up there and get the hell back to Sydney... :lol: :lol:

 

[Slateman]

I would not change anything. Just named article A.C.T.updated version of the herp laws
It is not bad idea to have this informations handy.

 

[Fangs]

At the risk of offending any Canberrans here I spent a lot of time down there years ago working on the then new bull***t castle and came to the conclusion that if Australia ever needed an enima(sic) thats where they would put it. :wink: