UVB and UVA Lighting

Discussion in 'Australian Snakes' started by balthazar, May 9, 2012.

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  1. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 Guest

    A comment on the two excerpts...

    The two excerpts appear to contradict each other.
    From 2. “The UVA wavelengths, which reportedly do not penetrate to the level of retinal photo receptors, suppress the ability of the pineal gland to synthesize its hormonal product [melatonin]. production.”
    From 1: “Plasma melatonin levels are not significantly reduced by parietalectomy...”
    Someone is clearly wrong. Are they dealing with different reptiles? How universal does make either set of results?

    I am immediately suspicious of excerpt 2 for a couple of reasons. Firstly, the use of the term “reportedly” with no reference to back it up.
    Secondly, I question the validity of the statement that “UVA wavelengths... do not penetrate to the level of retinal photoreceptors...” This is true in fair measure of snakes as they possess a coloured fluid that filters out ultraviolet light to protect the retina. Their colour vision is restricted in comparison to ours. However lizards and turtles have good colour vision and most possess cones that allow them to see into the ultraviolet spectrum (long wavelength UVA).

    Blue
     
  2. Pauls_Pythons

    Pauls_Pythons Power Seller Power Seller

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    Guys, stop fighting.
    There are reports to suggest both sides are correct so it is the keepers decision whether there is suficient data to support spending and extra $30 or so per annum in each enclosure, (Plus the set up costs).
    Personally I'm not sold on either argument BUT, I am preparing to install UVA into all of my reptile enclosures as I figure if it doesn't do any harm and MAY be of some benefit then Im sure my colection is worth the exta outlay.

    There are some fascinating reports out there and I would suggest you all go do some reading and make your own decision without baging someone for voicing their own personal opinion.
     
  3. insane-warlord

    insane-warlord New Member

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    hey guys this is a topic that intrests me very much now im not all that brite im a carpenter but i have spent alot of time around uv lights. what works best for your reptiles is entirely your decision but ive been shown with a uvb metre that reptile 1, urs uv lights are terrible you get 1-3 months worth of uvb out of them then the murcury burns off. in my expierance what gets the most value for money are either sumac (reptizoo) lights wich use some sort of powder to deliver uvb and get your pet right globes wich will hit the market in the next 4-6 weeks both of wich use powder that is supposed to last 9-12 months, now this is what Ive been told by my local reptile breeder who has been over seas and met all the big wigs of the reptile game, im not here to start fights or arguments just giving my 2 cents worth.
     
  4. MR_IAN_DAVO

    MR_IAN_DAVO Well-Known Member

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    Snakes do not need uv, lizards need uv to help in the absorption of calcium & most types of Geckos do not need uv but individual species may require it whilst young. This a brief guide as i see it, sorry if i am wrong in anyway.

    Most uv bulbs do not give of enough uv at the distance that most people install them. Uv is filtered by glass & other objects such as light protectors. Uv bulbs have a short life of giving of efective uv, so unless bulbs where changed on a regular basis (say 3 to 6 months) they will become inafective. I wonder how many people have old uv lights that they think are doing a great job.

    It is my opinion that if you were going to keep lizards the best place is with natural sunlight. If they are to be kept indoors then vitamin & calcium suppliments is a must.
    These are my thoughts through years of practice & listening. I am sorry if my wisdom is not allways right, but it is allways there for people to take it or leave it, whichever they choose.

    Cheers
    Ian

    Ps: sorry i should have said that lizards need uv to help them absorb calcium- as thier diet is normally poor in calcium, with the added vitamins & calcium this should eliminate the need.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2012
  5. Manda1032

    Manda1032 Very Well-Known Member

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    Good quality products state all this information on their packaging or in the info given out with the products. That's what the exoterra reps educated us about with the info and research to prove it
     
  6. MR_IAN_DAVO

    MR_IAN_DAVO Well-Known Member

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    This is my piont exactly, & how many people read it & install them properly & change them regularly.
    For without all of this you may as well not have one.

    Cheers
    Ian
     
  7. Research sponsored by them no doubt.....
     
  8. MR_IAN_DAVO

    MR_IAN_DAVO Well-Known Member

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    Mate i thought that i was the only negative one. I was getting lonely.

    But hey in all honesty i really don't know. This is just my education & what i believe.
    It would be really great to get the real ridgey didge awnsers.

    Cheers
    Ian
     
  9. Pauls_Pythons

    Pauls_Pythons Power Seller Power Seller

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    Different research has different suggestions.
    I like to stay open minded and base my decisions on the best available information.

    This report was not sponsored by any manufacturers but was quickly used by a manufacturer.
    The best sources of information come from those who are impartial, our problem is not knowing who is providing us with impartial information.

    http://www.reptilesdownunder.com/images/enclosure/files/lightuvlight.pdf
     
  10. MR_IAN_DAVO

    MR_IAN_DAVO Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for that.
    Obviously the best uv lighting is the sun.

    Cheers
    Ian
     
  11. Pauls_Pythons

    Pauls_Pythons Power Seller Power Seller

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    I think even with my limited scientific background I could agree with this statement.

    But as you said yourself, UV transfer is reduced through glass so anyone who keeps reptiles inside have animals that are having the access to UV limited.
    So the question remains is UV beneficial? It is suggested that it is beneficial in humans so why would it not be beneficial in reptiles??
     
  12. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 Guest

    There are a number of sites with lighting research but the best I have come across is UV Guide UK - Ultraviolet Light for Reptiles - UVB reptile lighting on test.

    The NEC T10 Blacklight is definitely excellent value for money.

    Ian, nice post on UVB... just a couple of additions if I may
    Monitors do not need exposure to UVB and Turtles do. CORRECTION - see post 39.

    Reptiles requiring UVB exposure need heat at the same time. This is because the rate of the chemical reaction that produces pre-vitamin D in the skin, is temperature dependent. It occurs most readily at the reptile preferred body temperature.
    The intensity of UVB emitted from a light source drops off dramatically with distance from the bulb. Fluorescent bulbs vary but usually somewhere between 10 cm and 30 cm, depending on the strength of the globe, whether a reflector is used and the requirements of the reptile. Mercury Vapour Lamps give out a significantly greater amount of UVB and normally used at distances of 30 cm to 50 cm, depending. They have the advantage of also giving out significant heat but are thereby unsuitable for small or poorly ventilated enclosures.

    The best way to ensure your reptiles are getting their quota of UVB is spend around $250 on a reliable UVB meter.

    Blue

    EDIT: The powder coating on the inside of the globes is called a phosphor and its chemical composition determines the wave lengths of the light emitted.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2012
  13. MR_IAN_DAVO

    MR_IAN_DAVO Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Blue,
    I will admit i am no expert, not even the spert part.
    But hey it is good to get some good info on this as there is a lot of what you might call differing variations, reports or stories on the subject. If you are right & not sure that you are, but thats another day or a PM, i would have thought that monitors do need uv depending on thier diet & especially small monitors as they mostly eat insects.

    It is good to get some real info out there.

    Cheers
    Ian
     
  14. Manda1032

    Manda1032 Very Well-Known Member

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    How else would they make the products?
     
  15. I'm not talking about research into the amount of UV the product emits, I'm talking about research into its effects on reptiles. Any 'research' sponsored from these companies should be taken with a grain of salt. I highly doubt there is any reptile that truly requires UV lighting as a necessity, it may however be beneficialy to some.
     
  16. MR_IAN_DAVO

    MR_IAN_DAVO Well-Known Member

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    I read somewhere today that you should take everything with a grain of salt put a lemon to your lips & drink touquila.
    Resposnably of course.

    Cheers
    Ian
     
  17. I won't argue with that!
     
  18. reptalica

    reptalica Subscriber Subscriber

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    Google reptile uv and Megaray. These IMHO r the best in MVB's.

    Their tests and subsequent results r good enough for me.
     
  19. balthazar

    balthazar Not so new Member

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    Thanks to all who replied and added there knowledge about the subject, there were some very good links put up to look at and good points discussed from one opinion to the other.
     
  20. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 Guest

    CORRECTION (to post No. 32): Monitors that eat whole vertebrates do not need UVB exposure - as they obtain sufficient vitamin D stored in the livers of their prey items. Those small monitor species which are more insectivorous may well need UVB or vitamin D supplementation in their diet, depending upon what they are given to eat. This also explains why a diet of minced meat alone is not adequate.

    Ian, thanks for bringing that shortfall to my notice.


    Blue

     
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