WA and Bearded dragons

[GBWhite]

Ditto, I know all those areas pretty well myself. Except for a spell in Inverell I've lived in the area for about 45 years and yes it is a top part of the world.

 

[Flaviemys purvisi]

Ditto, I know all those areas pretty well myself. Except for a spell in Inverell I've lived in the area for about 45 years and yes it is a top part of the world.

My main focus right now is the Manning River turtle, Flaviemys purvisi - I'm fortunate enough to be one of only 2 people in Australia that have this species in captivity. Very little is known about them and their classification has recently been upgraded to Endangered. They are arguably Australia's most attractive freshwater turtle species. A species that definitely needs conservation efforts. Even after the catastrophic events in the Bellinger, Wollumbinia georgesi are still more prolific than Flaviemys purvisi.

 

[Scutellatus]

@GBWhite
Is the Wollumbinia Georgesi related to you in any way George?

 

[Flaviemys purvisi]

@GBWhite
Is the Wollumbinia Georgesi related to you in any way George?

No, it was discovered by Arthur Georges I believe...

 

[GBWhite]

No mate but nice of you to think that it may have...lol. It's had a few names. I believe it was originally described by John Cann 1997 and named Elseya georgesi after Arthur Georges ( a known turtle man). In 2007 it was reclassified by Richard Wells as Wollumbinia georgesi. More recently as Myuchelys georgesi by A Georges & Thompson. There is a bit of a (shall I call it friendly...hahaha) disagreement between certain taxonomists at the moment regarding the use of Wollumbinia & Myuchelys.

 

[Scutellatus]

Obviously it comes from the Mt Warning area. Is it restricted to a certain river around there or all the river systems around The Great Cloud Catcher?

 

[Flaviemys purvisi]

Just like in Cann's latest book, Purvis' turtle has been classified as Wollumbinia purvisi.... that is just not accurate and considering the Manning River turtle is far older (55 million years) than the relatively newer georgesi, I'll be sticking with Flaviemys purvisi as will most... Elseya is the Southern and Northern snappers, albagula and dentata, including Jukes, Irwin's, etc...Myuchelys latisternum - Saw Shelled turtle... it's a huge s**t fight... before long everything will just be Emydura macquarii.

 

[GBWhite]

Obviously it comes from the Mt Warning area. Is it restricted to a certain river around there or all the river systems around The Great Cloud Catcher?

It's actually only found in the Bellinger River which is quite some distance from Mt Warning.

The biogeological complexity for Australian turtles has, up until recently been poorly researched, and as a result is not yet well understood, particularly along the east coast. As far as I'm aware even recent genetic studies by Arthur Georges (who's recognised as an authority on Australian turtles) indicate that it's difficult to define subspecies of Emydura that appear to represent geographically distinct populations.

Wellsy and myself have discussed the suggestion surrounding the assumption that the local Emydura is an introduced species and for a number of reasons question the validity of the dna data gathered to date to claim that it is an introduced species. Ricky Spencer alleges it was introduced to the river in 1992 or thereabouts but we've known of its presence here since the early 1970's and considering that the east coast was once a huge floodplain it's more reasonable to assume that they have been present along the east coast for a considerable time. DNA analysis indicates they are from the Clarence however, the Clarence isn't that far from Bellingen and there are no real geographic barriers to indicate they were ever isolated from each other. I believe that without absolute confirmation it's reasonable to assume that they share the same heritage. I also believe that the use of molecular dna data to identify or validate "new" species/subspecies should be resolved further because as it stands at the moment there are no specific standards to comply with.

 

[Scutellatus]

@GBWhite
Where does the Wollumbinia fit in to all of this? I thought the name would only be associated within a tight border around Wollumbin (Mt Warning).

 

[Bluetongue1]

Just curious Bluetongue1 but you seem to know a bit about it, I left WA as a teenager in 1960 and way back then the keeping of native animals including reptiles as pets was quite popular and encouraged in some schools, it was seen by its supporters as educational and better than the redneck attitude of killing snakes on sight and treating most animals as pests to be eradicated. It was not regulated in any way despite the fact even bicycles were licensed in those days. ...

The Fauna Protection Act was legislated in WA in 1950 and was amended to become the Wildlife Conservation Act to include native flora in 1980. So it is now referred to as the “Wildlife Conservation Act 1950”. Anyway, the Wildlife Conservation Regulations 1970 were introduced under the act and I think that was when they began to enforce no keeping (but I don’t know for certain as I have not got a copy of these regs. Although I have waded through the Act, it was too long ago).

Ah okay I see. Still I feel like the rest of Australia can keep reptiles fine and there hasn't really been a problem it's just WA, and I can understand why they wouldn't want reptiles to be kept as pets because they are wild animals but at the same time there are already ones that are captive bred in other states I guess it's just if they escaped their enclosure or something that would be the problem but surly if that happened the bearded dragons I mean they would be just like the dwarf ones and eat the same things ect... but anyways, lol sorry I'm just putting my thoughts about it online because it was bothering me. And a rant lol. but Thank you for enlightening me about it

It is important to realise that there is a difference between the regulations and how they are enforced. Yes, WA regs are restrictive compared to other states (except Tasmania) and compared to other animal groups kept as pets. However, there is no need for the stranglehold they have put on additions to our keeping lists. Six animals every five years if all goes well… What is the point to stringing it out like that? They should have allowed animals such as Varanus glauerti to be collected and kept by now, for as Yellowtail pointed out they are particularly vulnerable to decimation by cane toads. There is far too much personal influence by certain individuals at work here.

There are plenty of examples overseas, and even here where, animals that have been kept as pets have escaped or been released outside their natural range within their own country, and caused declines and even the local extinction of animals native to that area. An individual animal’s capacity to establish and cause adverse ecological effects needs to be thoroughly evaluated, because you don’t get a second chance with these things. It was decided by the department to concentrate on locally occurring species for this and other reasons. Eastern states’ species are not excluded by the regs, they are just not going to get a look-in for a long, long time.

Wild taking of a species, when done properly, has no influence on overall population size. For example, they have been culling tens of thousands of common roo species for decades and decades, yet they are still around in the same sorts of numbers. Its people who don’t do it properly that give the practice a bad name.

 

[GBWhite]

@GBWhite
Where does the Wollumbinia fit in to all of this? I thought the name would only be associated within a tight border around Wollumbin (Mt Warning).

To tell the truth I don't really know. You'd probably have to ask Richard where he got it from and why he chose it for the genus. I can't find his 2007 paper so I'll try and remember to ask him the next time I'm talking with him. In the meantime maybe someone else can enlighten us. I do know the genus Myuchelys is made up of the indigenous word "myuna" meaning clear water and the Greek Word "chelys" meaning turtle.

 

[Flaviemys purvisi]

To tell the truth I don't really know. I can't find his 2007 paper

Are you talking about the Australian Biodiversity Record? 2009 (No 1) ISSN 1325-2992 January, 2009 - Some Taxonomic and Nomenclatural Considerations on the Class Reptilia in Australia. A New Species of Freshwater Turtle in the Genus Wollumbinia Wells 2007 (Reptilia: Chelidae) from Eastern Australia. By Richard W. Wells.

@GBWhite Is this what you were after??
http://www.iucn-tftsg.org/wp-content/uploads/file/Articles/Wells_2007c.pdf

 

[GBWhite]

@GBWhite Is this what you were after??
http://www.iucn-tftsg.org/wp-content/uploads/file/Articles/Wells_2007c.pdf

Thanks for that. It was the one I was looking for

@GBWhite
Where does the Wollumbinia fit in to all of this? I thought the name would only be associated within a tight border around Wollumbin (Mt Warning).

Here you go. I thought it had something to do with the indigenous name but wasn't going to say so unless I was sure.

Etymology : Named from Wollumbin, the Bundjalung peopleís name for Mt Warning, in northeastern N.S.W., a significant place in the evolutionary history for this group of turtles.