What are Americans doing ?????

Discussion in 'Australian Snakes' started by borntobnude, Jun 20, 2013.

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  1. andynic07

    andynic07 Very Well-Known Member

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    Many breeding combinations in nature produce both desirable and undesirable traits in animals but in nature the undesirable traits usually die before maturity so the gene is not passed on to future generations. These traits are passed on through alleles and inbreeding reduces the amount of alleles available increasing the chance of both desirable and undesirable traits occurring and out crossing can be done to introduce a new set of alleles to the line. I am not trying to argue with you about this because I think irresponsible breeders go too far with this and I am against it but think that the amount of reptiles that suffer from line breeding is very minimal if done correctly and also pointing out that in nature these traits surface as well but die off usually.
     
  2. B_STATS

    B_STATS Guest

    I'm just really passionate about Australian Reptiles, reptiles everywhere in fact but especially my Aussie critters. Humans have already done too much damage. Like BloodRunsCold said, keeping reptiles is a privilege, not a right, not some experiment or designer fashion statement. I haven't been rude or nasty to anyone, I just stated my opinion. I'm a purist and a naturalist. If it doesn't happen in the wild it's not on for me. And I've never caught or seen a saggy, spikeless Beardy in the wild.
     
  3. Leasdraco

    Leasdraco Guest

    I agree that breeders should have an understanding of genetics before they attempt to breed reptiles as close as siblings or parent/offspring to get a "desirable" mutation. But reptiles do not suffer the same effects of direct inbreeding/linebreeding as mammals do.
     
  4. BloodRunsCold

    BloodRunsCold Suspended Banned

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    I guesstimate that these breed's will not last anyway's because of the weakness in the breed's and that natural breed's will prevail HOPEFULLY but it is said that from human tampering that no life will exist in the next 100k years very sad but a possible reality we must love life while we are here people LOOVE LIFE CONSERVE AND DO YOUR PART IF YOU CAN
     
  5. Pauls_Pythons

    Pauls_Pythons Power Seller Power Seller

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    Mate I think you need to take a look at the history of reptile keeping. Almost all captive bred animals have been line bred at some stage.
     
  6. andynic07

    andynic07 Very Well-Known Member

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    I admire your passion for Aussie reptiles and conservation and also respect your opinion. I also love Aussie reptiles and have my opinions too and enjoy discussing stuff like this. I think that you usually don't see as many morphs in the wild because they are killed off because they stand out instead of blend in. One question about breeding though, how do you suppose we breed animals in captivity? Do you think that we put a bunch of them together and let natural pairings happen?
     
  7. B_STATS

    B_STATS Guest

    What's wrong with simply not inbreeding? Having two healthy and natural/default forms and breeding them? Just being happy with and like them for what they already are?
     
  8. andynic07

    andynic07 Very Well-Known Member

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    Nothing wrong at all mate but inbreeding reduces the amount of genetics in the mix increasing the chances of favourable outcomes. I am all for two genetically different snakes breeding but just don't see a problem with responsible inbreeding.
     
  9. Like it or not you are still selecting for traits, even if you are doing so subconsciously, as soon as humans start to breed an animal natural selection in the traditional sense is over. Selecting for morphs just speeds it up a tad.
     
  10. B_STATS

    B_STATS Guest

    FINE! Think what you want. But to me a Jungle will NEVER be jet black and Beardies will ALWAYS have spikes ect. I will NEVER breed morphs.
     
  11. CptLici

    CptLici Not so new Member

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    I wonder if reptiles will ever become like cars.

    While modifying the engine, paintwork, mags, etc of a classic may have instantly made the car "cooler" than it's stock-standard counterparts, 30 years down the track the standards are selling for 500k while the modifieds sell for 50k.
     
  12. B_STATS

    B_STATS Guest

    And then you can come to me for the genuine article :p
     
  13. Dendrobates

    Dendrobates Active Member

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    Keeping reptiles as pets will never contribute to conservation, they have nothing to do with each other. These captive reptiles will never ever be used to repopulate the wild. Inbreeding in reptiles also occurs a lot in the wild, especially in small populations. The people that say that morphs don't occur or are rare in the wild need to get out a bit more and actually see some wild reptiles! Stripes, reduced patterns, patternless, hypomelanism, hypermelanism, etc etc are all very common in the wild! Armchair herpers just don't know they exist because they can't drag themselves away from their reptile forums..

    I like wild type animals so I personally don't care for all the shaky head jag, leatherback, super zebra snow axanthic blah blah crap but I also don't care if other people do it. Each to their own. Line breeding these reptiles is NO different to line breeding dogs, and every single domestic dog breed is line bred.. so if you own a domestic dog but think line breeding reptiles is wrong then you are a hypocrite. I don't get the blaming the Americans for this stuff either, we are just as bad for it so it seems of late...I see these beardies have now hit our shores and are being pumped out for the $$$.
     
  14. BloodRunsCold

    BloodRunsCold Suspended Banned

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    no I doubt it unless they get so big we can ride them like golden axe lmao
     
  15. B_STATS

    B_STATS Guest

    I don't own a dog. I only like native animals. I don't care for big dollars and I despise treating reptiles as designer items. I'll take a good old wild form Aussie reptile over the most expensive and crazy morph any day. When you all have cyber neon pythons shooting lasers from their eyes or whatever (dramatization) I'll be enjoying and appreciating the good old fashioned, wild native forms.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 20, 2013
  16. ozziepythons

    ozziepythons Well-Known Member

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    What many of us who have been in the reptile keeping hobby for 20+ years have noticed is the cultural shift in the perception of what constitutes desirable reptiles in a collection. Now designer reptiles advertised with clever marketing strategies are highly sought after, and I've even noticed pythons with the slightest difference in a pattern are being thrown online as an exciting new morph with a price tag to boot. This is the way the hobby is going, but what is disturbing is the way natural 'wild' coloured reptiles are becoming seen as undesirable, cheap even disposable, not worthy of much if any decent attention by the new generation of keepers. How many new keepers out there care little if their bargain priced grey bearded dragon or coastal carpet they bought on an impulse deteriorates and dies if they can just replace it next season when they are even cheaper, sold by breeders who find them increasingly difficult to sell in a buyers market?
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2013
  17. B_STATS

    B_STATS Guest

    EXACTLY! It cheapens reptiles. The sad thing is there are breeders out there that simply dispose of the undesired outcomes. It's disgusting!
     
  18. AntaresiaFreak13

    AntaresiaFreak13 Not so new Member

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    i agree with you 110% i love normals i don't like morphs except maybe an albino but they occur naturally.
     
  19. B_STATS

    B_STATS Guest

    I have a basic, 'boring' wild form Childrens and I LOVE him to bits! Worth a Million times more to me than any shiny morph.
     
  20. andynic07

    andynic07 Very Well-Known Member

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    I for one have a plain spotted python , a plain coastal python , a plain bearded dragon that I care for and love very much . My other reptiles are a coastal cross diamond that I think has exceptional black and white colours which I bought as a hatchling for $25 because it was unwanted from an accidental breeding that I also love and two pinstripe BHP's that are my my most expensive snakes but love equally as much as my others. None of mine are disposable or any more special than the others I have. I also think that you are right that some do see them that way.
     
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