Aussie Pythons & Snakes Forum

Help Support Aussie Pythons & Snakes Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Man, some people need to calm down. So you don't like morphs, good for you, don't buy one then. Why is that so hard? If others enjoy keeping different types of morphs as well as wild types, then that's their choice. People who keep morphs love reptiles just as much!
As for me, I don't have a problem with morphs as long as they are pretty healthy. There are some beautiful ones out there. I LOVE all the different colour and pattern morphs of Ball Pythons. Would love to own some of them. Yep, that's right. And yep, I can love wild types at the same time. Plus I own other domestic animals, so I would be a hypocrite if I said I hated morphs and linebreeding. My understanding is that inbreeding doesn't affect reptiles the same way.
 
Last edited:
This thread has some very insightful posts that really make you think. It demonstrates yet again that the differences in the keeping and breeding of reptiles make our hobby the interesting pastime it is. We might not agree with everyone's opinions but for me it's sometimes these contrasts that take my thought process in an exciting new direction.

Kindest regards

Endeavour
 
What you dont want super snow albine het superman incredible hulk nephurus lawsonii
 
Why must it be Americans? Germany and the UK have morphs that haven't made their way here yet. And what about the bluey morphs that can only be gotten there in Oz?

I'm with most, some morphs take it a bit far but others are amazing looking.

To each his own I guess. Don't like, don't buy. Inbreeding does not effect reptiles like it does humans.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
 
Oh Andy asked me what this American owned Beardy had to do with Australia's population of wilds.
I didn't mention the American owned beardy at all in any of my posts, I think it was Junglepython2 and Badsville that mentioned America.
 
No need to be a jerk mate. Look at the animal at the start of this thread. THAT wouldn't happen in the wild. Poor thing looks like a cancer patient.

Difference is that in the wild these animals are killed or simply die very quickly. In captivity people persevere with them in order to capitalise on the variation.
 
Why must it be Americans? Germany and the UK have morphs that haven't made their way here yet. And what about the bluey morphs that can only be gotten there in Oz?

I'm with most, some morphs take it a bit far but others are amazing looking.

To each his own I guess. Don't like, don't buy. Inbreeding does not effect reptiles like it does humans.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
I took the pic from an AMERICAN breeders website !!. I am slightly disappointed that it took 84replies before an American got hold , its what I wanted, BUT just 1 ?? :) I don't like any dog with OODLE in its name unless its a POODLE either but again that's just me :shock: .As Australians we tend to be a bit defensive of our pure breds for several reasons , Most are VERY unique . Our borders are Fairly protected (could be better), And they are just perfect the way they are . !!!!
 
:) I don't like any dog with OODLE in its name unless its a POODLE either but again that's just me :shock: .As Australians we tend to be a bit defensive of our pure breds for several reasons , Most are VERY unique

You won't be seeing any poodles in the wild LOL. Guess what all domesticated dogs are? Morphs haha.

Different morphs are often still pure bred, and things like a black jungle, can exist in the wild with no ill health at all. As someone said, it isn't magic (or radioactive leakages) that makes these traits pop up in captive breeding programs, they occur *naturally*, just like they can occur naturally in the wild. A difference in colour and pattern that would arise in a pairing of same locality animals, doesn't mean an animal is guaranteed to be any less healthy or functional. If you noticed that was the case, I would agree that it would be unethical to breed them, and I in no way agree that it is OK to reproduce a reptile with impaired functionality or ill health, so I am purely discussing visual traits that have no negative effects on health. However, if the animal is capable of being healthy and functional in captivity (how it would fare in the wild in terms of being easily spotted by predators etc is irrelevant), then there is no cruelty involved.

I personally prefer locality specific critters, but it isn't really possible to maintain locality specific breeding programs of particular species and sub species, without inbreeding to some degree, knowingly or unknowingly. If you like *pure bred* animals for your collections, then you must be OK with inbreeding, as there is not much opportunity to avoid it. Whether you pair together two individuals with a similar pattern/colour, in the hope of getting more of the same because you like them like that, or you pair them to something that is randomly different in appearance and gives you a more *natural* experience because it is random like in the wild, you are still likely breeding relatives to some degree, and the experience of the offspring produced, is going to be the same. People can say they like things one way or the other, but if the animal is still happy, healthy and fully functional, all arguments on whether it is immoral, disgusting, fabulous or indifferent, are completely self serving and have nothing to do with the quality of experience for each individual reptile produced. The baby is hatched, it finds a good home, and lives life oblivious to it's colour or pattern, eating, shedding and pooping like any other reptile.

There simply is not a never ending source of unrelated locality specific lineages for people to keep outcrossing with. Many captive species and sub species stem from a very few individuals, and you have no choice but to breed relatives, or to go back to the wild for more! Even species/sub species where there are a lot of individuals available from oodles of different breeders around the country, jungle carpets for example, have largely stemmed from a few different popular captive lineages, which would have originally come from a very small number of individuals collected from a particular area for each lineage, and will all be genetically very closely matched to many of the other individuals around the country that you assume they are genetically distant from. I guess you would have to start cross breeding localities and sub species, to actually increase genetic diversity for sure LOL. Catch 22 for purists who hate inbreeding!

Genetic diversity is useful in the wild so that there is always a diversity of different traits that may or may not suit a changing environment, and allow the species to survive and adapt. However, not much changes in captive husbandry, so things that may have an animal killed in the wild (eg an outrageous colour), have absolutely no negative implications for a pet snake in a safe enclosure. Inbreeding can also be used to select for health and other positive traits, and to breed out negative traits.
 
Last edited:
If you can't have an adult debate without the mudslinging and name calling, I will happily close the thread !
It's a little embarrassing to watch isn't it. Especially when some people try to defend a point of view that makes it clear they have very little understanding of genetics. I think the mixture of passion and limited education in certain fields means the passion over rides everything else. It's fine to have opinions. Just don't push them in anyone else and accept and respect those who's opinions are different. FACTS however are not opinions and it seems this thread lacks a lot of FACTS.
 
Seems this caused quite a stir. Lots of different views. Some childish responses that have been removed. I hold my position of being against the designer reptile/fashion statement fad but do not condemn slight variations like the albinos and intergrades that occur in the wild. I'm a proud Aussie and I am proud and protective of our unique wildlife. I don't believe it needs 'improving' and I appreciate what we have. I also believe they should stay in Australia and get quite angered when I see others seemingly abusing our natives in their countries. The fact is they always get carried away and lose sight of any appreciation and respect when it comes to things like this. I wont play God and produce countless inbred clutches and keep reptiles in tight shelves like a prison to get the 'just right' colour or shape. God knows what they do with the ones that 'failed'. I keep all my reptiles in natural-looking enclosures with plenty of room to live happy lives without feeling imprisoned. If I cannot provide such a home for my animals then I do not keep them. That's me and I wont change. I don't need a broad knowledge of genetics to see the problems facing the hobby, seems it's becoming all about the dollars and the next new thing. Not me. I guess I'm old school.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Good example of what Ingie wrote would be the rough scaled python. Every captive snake comes from the five founding ones that started the captive breeding program
 
The animal pictured looks different but that doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with it or that its quality of life is any less than normal. Im glad there are people on both sides of the fence on this. It insures there will always be straight blood lines and a large variety of morphs out there.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top