What sort of snake is this?

[thomasssss]

This is sort of the problem , it's not a video game not everyone needs a "go" the only valid reason ( strictly my opinion ) not to close it off to only experienced members is so that those who want to learn and maybe ask a question about the species being id can eg say it where a baby brown with the strips and someone wanted to ask if they all have the strips as bubs ( just an example )

People should just get it through their skulls that if you don't know then don't bloody answer

The I'd threads like is my stimmie a stimmie are a little different sure through in some educated guess but when it's a possible ven and you don't have experience doing Ids on vens then don't answer

 

[slim6y]

Using Scott as the IDer was only said in tongue and cheek... I hope you all realise that?

All I am saying is, and if you want self moderation, we need to pre-test people and their identification abilities. That can be optionally displayed in their Avatar heading area or directly under posts as a percentage correct.

 

[andynic07]

The really bad mis-IDs pee us all off but the important thing is that we usually get there in the end. An "animal ID" forum that had a few rules (like justify your answer) might improve things but then that's more work the mods don't need.
The only other thing I can think of that allows everyone to still have their input is to give members a rating so the forum will moderate itself. To do this give a handful of people who are good at identification, say 10 people like Scott, the power to give members a rating based on responses, only 1 rating for a post then the option is gone for all of these 10 people so members don't get bad or good votes twice for the same post.
The rating system would be clearly structured so everyone of the 10 people could easily rate posts without bias, here is just an example that would need to be fine tuned:
1 - Completely wrong
2 - Correct family, wrong genus
3 - Correct genus
4 - 100% (Correct genus and species)
This sort of scale might not work in all situations but in those where it does it will quickly separate the people that know and the people that don't (and is very black and white either yes or no). It would allow everyone to have a go but give the OP the ratings of members to gauge who is worth listening to. Also with the persons reputation on the line people might not be so inclined to jump in with stupid answers.

Again I understand that it would be a big pain to set up and moderate but just wanted to put it out there since the discussion has gone this direction.

A person could get themselves a good rating by guessing or just following what other people say unless they are the first to post. Sounds like a pretty good idea but may need to be thought out a bit more.

 

[Chanzey]

How about a section for ID threads and in that section, all comments must be approved first by a Mod, so if a comment is way off the mark on ID it can be denied, but other comments involved in the discussion and correct IDs can be accepted?

 

[Hillbilly-1]

Wow!.......I was just trying to get some help to ID a snake!........It appears that's not all that has been identified?......Thanks for all the replies, particularly the ones that actually give an answer, instead of a rant!

 

[slim6y]

Wow!.......I was just trying to get some help to ID a snake!........It appears that's not all that has been identified?......Thanks for all the replies, particularly the ones that actually give an answer, instead of a rant!

Welcome to APS, have a nice day

Hopefully, in your adventures you'll find a nice crowned snake in the wild, alive. They're quite a beautiful snake.

 

[Bluetongue1]

NB:

My apologies Hillbilly for not affirming the correct ID. And having hijacked your thread. What was meant to be a bit of a pat on the back for Scott has opened up Pandora’s box. The issue of ID is an important one and needs airing – I’d reckon that a good cause.

This is something I have given a lot of thought to and have been in contact with another member to try and generate some useable ideas to put to people. While not intractable, there are a lot of difficulties to over come. The harder you look at it the more issues arise - I think I sent off about 5 pages of notes. It’s been a while since I did that but off the top of my head a few points come to mind….

Any system adopted must NOT increase the current workload of moderators.
Snake IDs are different from other reptiles due to potential danger.
Dead snake vs Live snake generates different issues e.g. danger.
IDs of snakes in bush vs those in home generates different issues.
ID of snake mimics e.g. Delma species and young browns, needs pointing out to avoid potential field mistakes.
Many snake IDs are from one time users who join solely for that purpose. As soon as they get one ID, many are gone.
One off users may not use a specific forum allocated to ID.
Many members do use ID threads to work on their own identification skills. This should be encouraged (somehow).
Use of common names might cause confusion, so should scientific names always be given as well?
How to respond to someone with a live snake trapped in whatever. What advice, if any, should be given?

Whatever system is introduced, it will depend upon members to use it correctly and to pull up those that do not. It needs to clear and simple.

Just a couple of points about those making IDs. No individual knows it all. For example, some people are great at IDs of North Queensland coastal species but not so with Victorian ones. Different members are on the forum at different times, so different people are available or not available when an urgent request comes through. Members come and go and so does their expertise. Number of posts is NOT to be equated with ability to ID reptiles.

Blue

EDIT: I have copied all the comments made and will incorporate that into the mix that we are currently working with.
How about those people who are interested in putting in the time, thought and energy to improve on the way IDs currently happen PM me. I am happy to act
as a co-ordinator.

 

[Bluetongue1]

The last thing I wanted to do was stifle discussion on this topic. Unfortunately it seems I have been very successful in doing just that…

Clearly I am not the only person who thinks it is important to have some sort of guidelines or system in place with IDs. It would be of benefit if others who are interested could contribute and also critique whatever is suggested. I doubt any system will satisfy everyone but so long as it is acceptable to a majority and workable, it has to be a vast improvement on the current situation.

Any comments?

 

[jordo]

After I posted I left for three weeks field work, so I'm going to be the annoying one to resurrect this thread

People should just get it through their skulls that if you don't know then don't bloody answer

Two things with that:
a) I think often they believe they know but just because of more limited experience they get it wrong (they don't realise there are more reptiles out there than what we have in captivity maybe).
b) Who doesn't love to guess? If it's a bird I'll still have a go even though I'm not as experienced with them as reptiles. For that reason it's my opinion that it should be open to all to have a crack at and discuss - which again supports some sort of rating system so the OP can gauge who to trust a bit more.

Snake IDs are different from other reptiles due to potential danger.
Dead snake vs Live snake generates different issues e.g. danger.
IDs of snakes in bush vs those in home generates different issues.
ID of snake mimics e.g. Delma species and young browns, needs pointing out to avoid potential field mistakes.
Many snake IDs are from one time users who join solely for that purpose. As soon as they get one ID, many are gone.
One off users may not use a specific forum allocated to ID.
Many members do use ID threads to work on their own identification skills. This should be encouraged (somehow).
Use of common names might cause confusion, so should scientific names always be given as well?
How to respond to someone with a live snake trapped in whatever. What advice, if any, should be given?

In my opinion it doesn't matter what the situation is, if the animal is a venomous snake or not. No one has any responsibility for the actions of other. If someone is going to grab a snake thinking it's a Delma that is no reflection on APS, just the persons own bad judgement. I understand that if someone miss ID's a brown as a harmless species how it could go wrong. But this is the internet, why would you take any advice on something like that as gospel. If it's snake like and you don't know what it is then you can't really trust anyone to ID it if you plan on handling it should it turn out harmless - that's essentially trusting a stranger with your life

No individual knows it all. --> amen