Discussion in 'Australian Snakes' started by The Reptile Outlet, Sep 27, 2011.
As has been said before, the appeal of the Oenpelli Python to private keepers would not be wide so saving them is not a money making project. Its about bringing them into private hands so we can learn and save a species. Its been done before by the government with disasterous outcomes but there is now the necessary clearances and expertise to allow it to happen privately, a little like private conservation in Africa.If you put a price on something it can make it worth saving. Put a price on saving it and some people will want to participate in the saving of it. There are keepers out there willing to pay for the eco tourism experience, and consider a that helping save a species, may have better longterm, far-reaching outcomes, than investing the money on a holiday in Bali.
I hope you are right Troy, I hope it is affordable to the many keepers that are out there and not limited to only those that have loads of money to spend. Also, keep in mind that $5k for a snake (Not saying this is the price, purely used as an example) is not much coin for some people, however this can be a lot of money for others. So the relevance of how 'cheap' or 'affordable' something is, is totally relevant to the person telling the story.
I am also very excited about this project and can't wait till I eventually own my own pair. will be fantastic to see the conservation of this animal in captivity as I am sure it would have a struggle once toads hit its area.
Like a lot of things, just because you have the $$$$ does not automatically make you a dedicated keeper. Just gives you the opportunity to score them. At times it can be a pity.
Agreed. I've met keepers with the $ to have some great reptiles who have less than half the passion of some less well off ones I've met.
No i haven't but i think that is because i didn't get into the feild until after the toads had marched through already. In Kakadu and Arnhem i think we are just about to hit a new equilibrium where some species might recover a little from the toads. Never back to the same level as pre toads though.
Personally i think weeds and different fire conditions are the biggest threat to drop bears.
Finding them is going to take years, i'm quite confident in saying that. I have put in a similar number of hours, probably more, over the last two years in known locations. I have had one trip where i saw a 'maybe' that got away from me before i could get out to it. It's not going to be easy!
Can someone tell us a bit more of Gavin's talk?
That's what i was hoping someone would do!
The project will soon be outlined on Gavins new website: albinopythons.com.au which should be up and running at the end of next week.
lt appears to me reading this thread according to many posts on here if you have got money you have no passion and don't care except to have an animal as a trophy....what a lot of cr#p, every day on this site< can some tell me how to fix my snake/lizard up l don't have the money to go to the vet well imo 99% of the time "SHORTCUTS" got them into this position in the 1st. place then the critter suffers because the owner cries poor and ignorant, a more balanced view imo would be there are passionate keepers on both sides of the ledger (well off / not so well off)..
.........solar 17 (Baden)
What I said was just because you have the $$$ does not mean that you are automatically a passionate keeper. That is no way meaning all are. I think you are reading a lot more into what was actually said.
No offence meant at all Baden. Its just hard sometimes to see great reptiles in the hands of a person who sees them as more of a trophy when they could goto a more passionate but less financially able keeper. Everything I've seen from you suggests you have both knowledge and passion and I have no idea of your financial situation. The comments were not a dig at anyone in particular but rather a frustration that I can't be involved in some of the amazing ongoing projects due to financial constraints.
A case of miscommunication. I apologise
As a more general statement I might mention that I have very rarely seen a keeper lacking passion on this forum. You see more of it whilst contacting sellers through gumtree or in some posts of others experiences.
Mate, the big projects are big because they involve rare or charismatic species such as the western taipan, oenpelli python, earlier rough-scalled and green pythons. You, and everyone else can indulge in amazing projects, you just have to go where your interest takes you. Of all the people I ever worked with or had some herp association with, I most admire a friend of mine who picked up a pair of Suta suta and kept and bred them for 12 years. He was totally absorbed in it. It was an amazing and interesting project because no one has done it before. The only thing I hold against him is that he didn't publish on it.
Big names, top shelf species are not necessarily the most amazing animals to study or work with and you don't need lots of money to find and undertake a really amazing project.
I don't mean to demean cheaper reptiles. I love all my animals. Unfortunately the chance to learn about and help to raise numbers in a new endangered animal is beyond my ability. I seem to have said things the wrong way today. Being at the forefront of any area is exciting and an amazing experience.
Also by less financially able keeper, I don't just refer to myself. Surely there are others who would love the socks off a gtp who can't afford one and surely there are gtps out there kept in less than the desirable way.
These general comments are not a direct attack.
At the risk of offending you deadcricket, i think this is what most of those comments boil down to. Except i word it as jealousy and sour grapes.
These snakes will have to be sold at a premium price for the first couple of generations so the investors can get some return on their capital. This is going to be an expensive project, this isn't going to be like Somon Stone's Gammon Ranges carpets- easier project, cheaper project and easier snakes=lower price tag. You need helicopters to get around (about $2k+ an hour), you need to get into different areas over long periods of time (Last night I conservitely counted the hours i've been looking over the last two years, i'm at 398 hours with nothing to show for it!) which means lots of expeditions and this is all before you even have an animal! Then once, however many, are found then they need to be housed and fed for several years. After that you can start to think about breeding them, i'm not sure if many people realise this but wild snakes make for terrible captive breeders, especially if they are older animals which i think is likely that they will be! So with luck you'll get one or two clutches out of your W/C's and you can concentrate on raising them, over the next 5 years or so, as breeders.
Alot of time and alot of money spent. BUT Gavin hasn't even been out to collect any yet! It's a bit premature to be speculating about price tags!
The spinoffs for this project are far beyond Oenpelli pythons.Lots of flora anf fauna throughout Kakadu,will get "caught up" in the search. Partnering with the traditional owners will facilitate information interchange. The area concerned is very isolated and apparently contains a lot of rock art. I have no doubt that other unknown species will be discovered.
I'm super jealous! Having the time and funds to spend 300 man hours walking and choppering around Kakadu and Arnhemland to look for one of the world's least known and potentially most enigmatic pythons species..... and still with no results... that sounds amazing, and would normally be frustrating as hell if it wasn't such an amazing part of the world....
The January Issue of Scales & Tails Australia will feature more of Gavin's talk as the main article..... Heaps of pics too!
I agree. I would love to spend my days doing this
Weeds are worse
You are spot on Gordo. Is is unsexy to talk about, but weeds and fire are worse than toads in north Australia. Toads don't change the entire habitat from woodlands to grasslands but weeds and fire does and is.