Why are reptile enthusiasts in Australia not allowed to keep exotic reptiles

Discussion in 'Australian Snakes' started by Cunninghamskinks, Apr 8, 2014.

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  1. I absolutely agree with you Snowy - regulation which doesn't keep pace with the changing times is almost guaranteeing further extinctions in this country. You can level natural bush with a bulldozer and literally kill every reptile that lives there to turn it into a shopping centre carpark, but be prosecuted for going in beforehand and catching all the reptiles you can before they're crushed and pulped and their habitat is obliterated... such is the disconnect between the decision-making bodies in this country. It's no wonder there is little respect for the laws & lawmakers...

    Jamie
     
  2. I think the problem is that many of the keepers such as champagne only see things as adornments in their snakerooms or lounge rooms - what goes on outside isn't their concern. As much as I would love to keep chameleons or other challenging and gorgeous-looking species, the sad fact is that there's a much bigger picture to be considered, not the least of which is the plundering of and trade in these things in their country of origin. The whole system is so open to corruption and manipulation that the only way to ensure management is to outlaw the lot.

    Jamie
     
  3. Snowman

    Snowman Guest

    The percentage of armchair herpers would be very high. I don't get out much, but I can find a few species in and around Perth. It's interesting the detachment the hobby now has from the wild. In this day and age you can successfully keep reptiles without having a clue about where they come from, their habitat, natural food sources etc etc. The down side is the understanding that comes with observing fauna in their natural environment. Without that, it can be very hard to understand conservation and how fragile ecosystems really are. I also think any reptile keeper that observes the same species as pets they keep in the wild, will gain a much better insight to them.
     
  4. moosenoose

    moosenoose Legendary

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    Still, you're allowed to keep Cats, dogs, birds, fish, mice, rats, rabbits, pigs, goats & every other thing that has hair or fins...but definitely not allowed to keep something exotic with scales :D Hell no! hehe

    Quite frankly, I think its a good thing we can't. But lets make it an even playing field. And lets also not have the Antis & Greenies sooking when shooters are out there knocking down a few of them in either State Forests, National Parks or on public or private land.
     
  5. Varanoidea

    Varanoidea Well-Known Member

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    I used to think I wish we could get exotics here in Australia but I like to think I have matured since then and the fact that we can't get them is one of the things I am grateful for despite all my disdain for a lot of the things the government does. I can't see why anyone would want exotics in the first place. I for one am proud of the diverse range of herps that we are known for and I don't want it to change.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2014
  6. Snowman

    Snowman Guest

    Unfortunately a lot of those things came out on the first fleet, bar the fish I guess. The government does seem to be tightening the noose on exotic fish and birds. With reptile keeping coming in so late in the game they had a chance to try and squash it before it got a foot hold like all the other exotic pets that got her before conservation was even thought of.
    100 years ago they released a heap on laughing kookaburras into the SW of WA with the idea of wiping out tiger snake numbers. The kookaburras don't belong here so just another exotic the reptiles have to compete with. Even if it is from the same continent.
     
  7. zulu

    zulu Very Well-Known Member

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    Yeh the government has sought of learnt their lesson in a way,exotic fish in in many waterways ,plants and animals ,they will not stop bringing things in when they get powerful lobby groups that want them like the farmers federation etc
    They tried to squash the reptile exotic trade but it is very prolific all round australia,not just sydney ,already there is wild populations of red eared sliders in waterways around sydney , brisbane , macleay river and others.
     
  8. -Peter

    -Peter Guest

    Most exotic and feral animals came in under some form of official countenance. No exotic reptiles have been imported without restriction on the breeding and reallocation of them or their offspring according to DPI and as such can never have been legally been sold, exchanged or gifted to private reptile keepers. Meaning, no hobbyist has ever been legally allowed to keep exotic reptiles in australia except in NSW where they were held under special license with caveats attached. These licenses are not valid outside the state of NSW and are not transferrable.
     
  9. Snowman

    Snowman Guest

    Someone offered geckos as a swap for a bike a friend was selling in NSW.. The picture of the geckos was interesting. They are obviously leopard gex.
     
  10. champagne

    champagne Well-Known Member

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    lol I don't want to keep exotics and would be happy if none were ever in this country including jags, zebras and none native gtps but if you think that exotic reptiles would have an impact on native wildlife bigger then all the feral cats or habitat destruction that's is done in the name of ''progress'' then you really need to open your eyes to the real problems facing our native wildlife...

    - - - Updated - - -

    when did I say I see reptiles as adornments? I understand its easy to grab the pitchfork with the other inbred...
     
  11. reptinate

    reptinate Active Member

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    Why do people have to call each other names because they have different opinions? I'd love to be able to own a few exotics. I love our natives but there are some beautiful exotics too.

    I do understand the concern though. But is keeping natives outside their natural range any different? Doesn't that have the potential to cause harm to an areas wildlife and also mix the genetics of the local populations? So isn't there twice the threat? Yet people have no problem with keeping natives all the way from the west in the east, or from the south in the north, etc. What if Australia was not one country, would people then be opposed to keeping those same reptiles outside their natural range?

    If reptiles escaping was a big threat then shouldn't we be seeing a lot of natives establishing populations outside their range all over the country? I'm not sure, but Ball Pythons aren't causing big problems in America are they? And they're extremely popular there and have been keeping them for a long time. And again I'm not sure, but others like Retics aren't establishing populations are they?

    Is it a bit hypocritical to be against owning certain exotic reptiles while owning exotic birds, fish, dogs, cats, rabbits, etc? Could it work if we were only allowed to own certain exotic reptiles? Doesn't have to be every and any.

    I'm no expert and I'm just putting forward my thoughts, and my questions are honest ones. :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2014
  12. Cunninghamskinks

    Cunninghamskinks Not so new Member

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    Just a thought
    is it possible to de sex reptiles? then they cant breed if they escape
    just wondering
     
  13. SamNabz

    SamNabz Very Well-Known Member

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    This question gets asked a lot, which isn't an issue. However, at the end of the day the result is always the same..

    The reasons for why they are not allowed (e.g scientific principles, native animal safety and so on) will always outweigh the reason they should be allowed (e.g "I just want one").
     
  14. You didn't say you see them as adornments - it is simply the impression I got from your posts in this thread.

    Can you tell me what you meant by your last sentence? If it's what I think you mean, you're looking for a suspension matey...

    Jamie
     
  15. moosenoose

    moosenoose Legendary

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    To be honest, there are steps of controlling exotic snakes in collections. They do it currently with those who hold the international licenses, yet I don't see Boas slithering all over the place. The trouble is the government/s just toss it into the "to hard basket". If they knew there was a dollar in it they'd be all for it. It'd be as simple as making another license level which is a step up from the advanced. Ensure the room the snakes are kept in are also escape proof as part of the requirements & have the animals microchipped. Its really not that hard.

    Many people squeal that its all about the diseases they might carry. The trouble is that they are still arriving anyway, and as such a damn sight harder to regulate.
     
  16. cement

    cement Subscriber Subscriber APS Veteran

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    The funny thing is Australia is the land of the reptile! We have every natural environment type niche catered for, and so hand in hand, we have every type of reptile available. If you want a big snake, get an olive or a scrub. Even a mid size scrub will sort the men from the boys. If you want a nice docile complacent snake get a stimmy, or a diamond if you want something a bit bigger. If you want it green, blue, yellow, red, brown, black or a mix of each, its all here readily accessible. If you want a challenge that will get the heart pumping and test your mettle, get a lacie or any of the worlds most venomous snakes that are all coincidently....here as well.
    We also have the opportunity to work with exotics or even crocs and alligators if you volunteer or work in one of our many parks or zoos. And if your up for it, go visit the tip of Cape York or other parts of the top end and get up close and personal with the real big boys.

    Its all here, so much so, that you cannot possibly even keep and learn to breed, every native australian herp in your lifetime. With more new species coming on the scene even to this day.

    But as mentioned if your too big, or unsatisfied by the Australian diversity, then just move overseas to a country that allows you to keep whatever. Stuffed if i would give up residency in the best country in the world just to keep a snake.
     
  17. Retic

    Retic Almost Legendary

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    That's only a problem if you consider Australia to be the best country in the world ;)

    - - - Updated - - -

    That is the crux of the matter, they are still arriving and being bred in increasing numbers but as long as they are illegal everything is fine LOL
     
  18. Ash, you must mix in very different circles to those I inhabit. For sure there are a lot of exotics in Australia, but from what you & others say it sounds like they're in teeming numbers. There's a market for them for sure, and certainly there's a network that allows a keeper with the interest to pretty much get what they want. But as I said, your network must be very different to mine. The thing you always overlook is the support of the illegal collection and laundering of these animals from other parts of the world. Just the same as ivory and rhino horn - just because it happens doesn't mean we surrender to the morons who are doing this stuff. Just so you can have some covetted species in your loungeroom.

    I'm not a nationalist btw - Australia just happens to be the country in which I was born and continue to live. I'm far from proud of it anymore.

    Jamie
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2014
  19. wokka

    wokka Guest

    If more animals were allowed to move in and out of Australia legally it would minimise many of the risks and incentives which currently exist with the illegal trade, "under the table".
    Unfortunately we see on a daily basis through all the various royal commissions and ICAC enquiries etc, that our decision makers can be influenced by self interest, greed and political control.
    I have yet to hear the advantages of illegal import and export over the legal trade. I dont know if our leaders believe if it is illegal it doesn't happen. Are our rules written by a bunch of ostriches?
     
  20. Hi Warwick, I'd be the first in line to criticise the stupid lack of consistency in many of our laws & regs, especially with regard to exotic animals in Oz - birds vs reptiles for example... the inconsistency is bizarre, given that there are now many species of birds (parrots) which weren't here10 or 20 years ago are now common and "legal" in collections. Conure species for example have skyrocketed in the last 20 years.

    But the state of politics in this country now is worth despairing over - as you say, self-interest, greed and control now prevail as the reasons for being in politics. Not everyone, but many, and they worm their way into positions of influence with duplicitous, manipulated messages. The big problem remains however... no matter the pros & cons of exotic reptiles in this country, it is still almost impossible to assure the provenance of anything coming in from overseas, except by building protocols with actual breeders in the country of origin - as was done with the legal imports of Macaws and other species in the 1990s. This is very expensive and time consuming, and consequently makes the first animals off the rank extremely expensive - far more so than anything imported illegally and sold directly into the market. The last thing that the desirable species in their own (often threatened) habitat needs is another big market to open up to absorb even more wild caught animals.

    Philosophically I'm not opposed, but practically it would pose huge problems. probably not insoluble, but the amount of bureaucratic time and therefore the expense, would make it difficult for any government to justify.

    Jamie
     
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