Why Do People Dislike Jags?

Discussion in 'General Reptile Discussion' started by Iguana, Dec 9, 2016.

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  1. Iguana

    Iguana Well-Known Member

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    Hey everyone,
    So my curiosity stems mostly from a recent thread "just discovered a bad side to the hobby" in which a couple of people have said they didn't condone jags for first time keepers or want them in their collection.

    To be honest I don't know too much about jags, apart from the fact they are prone to neurological issues, I was at a pet store once and someone was trying to sell me one for $600 or so, when I asked about the Neuro issues they assured me that his jags were 'clean' and the neuro only appears from heavy inbreeding. Is this true?

    Just wondering everyone's opinions on them and why people dislike them, but at the same time I see tons of them at every expo.

    Just a disclaimer, I'm not looking at getting any Jags, I prefer the wild types myself :)

    Thanks,
     
  2. pinefamily

    pinefamily Subscriber Subscriber

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    Like most people, I can admire their colours and patterns. I would never have one, partly for the neuro issues, and partly because we just love the natural colours and patterns better. I don't think we will ever get to how it is oversea, especially the US. Over there, you will pay top dollar for a pure carpet python, if you can even find a guaranteed pure one.
    Not sure on the inbreeding thing; as far as I am aware it can, and I stress can, happen in any jag. The question I have is why, when current DNA testing is starting to show that most carpets are the same DNA wise. Only the bredli, the Darwin and the southwest seem to have different DNA.
     
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  3. Wally

    Wally Subscriber Subscriber

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    The nefarious manner in which they turned up in Australia.
     
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  4. Iguana

    Iguana Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the answer :)
    I agree, jags do have nice colors most of the time, but I would be paranoid about the neuro issues appearing.
    And I've heard that too, most of their carpets are mixes or 'mutts' I believe, makes me appreciate the pure wild types we have here.
    It is a mystery that's for sure, I was assured it was because of inbreeding, maybe he was just trying to sell me a 'pure' jag. I wonder if anyone is doing any research on it, it would be great to find out how the neuro happens in some jags and not in others.
    Knew about Bredli's, but didn't know that Darwins and Southwest having different DNA, very interesting, i'll look into that for sure, I thought only Bredli's had unique DNA.
     
  5. Iguana

    Iguana Well-Known Member

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    Did they not originate in Australia?
     
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  6. Bushfire

    Bushfire Well-Known Member

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    The bloodline and zebras were very much smuggled in from overseas and they made a killing in the profits. But at the time in an attempt to deflect attention they were labeled Reduced Pattern Moreila (RPM). To me this whole event took aussie reptile keepers to a new ethical low.
     
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  7. BrownHash

    BrownHash Well-Known Member

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    For me its:
    • the fact that they were smuggled into Australia,
    • the neuro issues as a reptile buyer,
    • the ethical issues of their breeding (people trying to breed Jags with Jags which result in the lethal Leucistic form); and
    • they also muddy the waters genetically of other Morelia sp.
    The last point also relates to any of the hybrids and crossbreeds. It's getting harder and harder to trust that what you are buying is what you asked for. People can always argue that it doesn't really matter as long as the snake looks good, but bad genetics can easily contaminate breeding projects and cause issues down the track. I guess I feel that Jags are the "poster child" of this issue.

    I remember when I first joined APS, you couldn't mention Jags without it causing a sh!t storm. As snakes and reptiles became more popular the number of purist and others who frowned upon them became diluted and Jags became accepted. I understand that, like Cane Toads, they are here to stay, but personally I'm not a fan and think of them as the garbage of the Morelia world.

    As people say, 'a snake is only worth what you are willing to pay' and for me, Jags are worthless.
     
  8. Iguana

    Iguana Well-Known Member

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    Thanks @Bushfire and @BrownHash, I had no idea they were smuggled in, that is ironic to me now since many people are so against exotics.

    @BrownHash Thanks for the answer :)
    I don't know too much about the genetics of a Jag, but i'm assuming the gene is recessive, is it an issue if the ancestor of a snake was a jag? Wouldn't the gene remain recessive and therefore not harm the snake? Unless by chance it was bred with another snake who had the Jag gene. I agree that it's muddied genetics, but is it more than an ethical issue? (ie contaminated snake)
    I can't see there being many 'pure' snakes in the market in the future, with the takeover of new morphs and such. I guess there will always be purists, but new keepers may favor bright colors and fancy patterns over wild types, I did at one point.
     
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  9. Prof_Moreliarty

    Prof_Moreliarty Well-Known Member

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    @Iguana
    jags are co-dominant.

    I have no issues with jags apart from neuro, but agree with alot of the purist comments, I plan to breed wild type jungles (tim Faulkner line) and a nice Dajarra locale of carpet (just got to find her a bf). but I love zebra's and will also be breeding them and will try for a super zebra.
     
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  10. TrueBlue

    TrueBlue Very Well-Known Member

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    Jags have done heaps of damage to the hobby imo. The amount of cross bred rubbish out there these days is incredible. Not my thing and never will be. And then there is the neuro issue that effects ALL jags. Not my thing at all.
     
  11. Iguana

    Iguana Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for clearing that up :)
    The neuro issue reminds me of the 'spider' gene found in Ball pythons, although neuro isn't that bad, still pretty awful to encourage. Does the Zebra have any issues?
     
  12. Iguana

    Iguana Well-Known Member

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    Yeah from what i've read I can see why people dislike them so much, I didn't know it effects all of them, that's just awful :(
    I feel very bad for the snakes, it's them that suffer. They still need homes and such, maybe someone could open up a 'Jag' rescue, since they will be unwanted in the future, but I'm guessing people will still breed them.
     
  13. kittycat17

    kittycat17 Well-Known Member

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    I've heard of super zebras have pig tails? But I haven't personally seen any


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  14. Iguana

    Iguana Well-Known Member

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    That's crazy if true, wonder if they would still function like a relatively normal tail
     
  15. Prof_Moreliarty

    Prof_Moreliarty Well-Known Member

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    Well.. the pigtail thing certainly puts me off wouldn't mind seeing a photo if someone had one. is it actually curly like a pig tail?
     
  16. kittycat17

    kittycat17 Well-Known Member

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    Just a quote from a forum after a quick google search
    Was posted back in 2014
    [​IMG]


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  17. chilli-mudcrab

    chilli-mudcrab Active Member

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    :eek:I like my jags got a few different kinds none of them show any signs of neurological disorders apart from biting (looking at you junglejag). And yeah I find lot of normals to be boring that's my opinion
     
  18. chilli-mudcrab

    chilli-mudcrab Active Member

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  19. imalizardbro

    imalizardbro Not so new Member

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    All jaguar pythons have neurological problems, some display it more than others, some may not even show signs until its a lot older or stressed.
    The super form is lethal.
    People have crossed them to any carpet available at the time, this has polluted the carpet complex more than people care to talk about.

    They do nothing for me, would rather a nice striped pure coastal any day over a jungle jag etc.
     
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  20. Iguana

    Iguana Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for sharing that @kittycat17 I guess the pigtail myth is true
     
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