Why so much blood?

Discussion in 'Australian Snakes' started by guzzo, Feb 29, 2012.

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  1. Joemal

    Joemal Well-Known Member

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    PICT0007 (Medium).JPG PICT0016 (Medium).JPG PICT0011 (Medium).JPG


    Missed her rat and got me instead ....
     
  2. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 Guest

    Guzzo, Sorry about the length but hopefully this addresses your questions....

    The amount of bleeding from different wounds is purely and simply the result of the distribution of blood vessels and the damage done. Blood vessels carry food to cells and remove wastes. the more active the cells the greater the blood flow required to and from them. The germinative layer of skin slowly produces cells that die and get pushed outwards to make our which is continually shedding. Underneath the germinative there is a layer of fat (insulation and shock absorber) which is not very active. Below that there is active muscle.

    Pinch a fold of skin on your forearm, your finger , your face and the side of your body (i.e. near the kidneys). The differences in thickness are due to the amount of far deposited under the skin.

    The face has little fat and a high blood supply. Cuts on the face bleed a lot but by he same token are quicker to heal (all else being equal).

    A razor cut, because of its sharpness, maintains the same depth as it is dragged through the skin. A claw is designed for piercing and not cutting. It will slip up and out of the hole it produce if dragged across the skin. Pressure applied while this is happening will see it re-enter the skin before it becomes entirely free. so a scratch from a claw actually produces a cut of varying depth.

    Claws are used primarily for climbing. They need to be sharp to enter a surface but he also need to be strong enough to bear the weight of the owner. So thy become thick very quickly, reducing their ability to enter deeply. It does not help a clawed animal to get them stuck deeply into the surface they are scaling.

    The needle like nature of python teeth has been mentioned. They are capable of significant penetration but do not affect that many pain receptors in the process. There is also the sheer weight of numbers. They are capable of reaching and piercing larger blood vessels than are found closer to surface of the skin. The higher blood pressure in these vessels is seen in the degree of bleeding. Some holes bleed a lot more than others, simply because they pierced larger vessels. This is why the short teeth of hatchies initially cause zero bleeding.

    Blue
     
  3. guzzo

    guzzo Very Well-Known Member

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    Now thats what I am talking about...heaps of blood.....It amazes me how the blood quickly flows! I mean you have no sooner been bitten than the blood is dripping on the floor! I am not to sure what a python tooth looks like up close but i assume they are just round (for gripping) not serrated (for tearing)
     
  4. Sezzzzzzzzz

    Sezzzzzzzzz Very Well-Known Member

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    when i started researching getting a snake I watched a few snake bytes videos and in one of them he he said something about the anti coagulation properties in a pythons bite...

    Iwill try and dig it up...
     
  5. Venomous1111

    Venomous1111 Well-Known Member

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    Is this the one your looking for by any chance? 1.10 into the clip..

    Snakes Biting! : SnakeBytesTV - YouTube
     
  6. Sezzzzzzzzz

    Sezzzzzzzzz Very Well-Known Member

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    thanks hun, you saved me the effort, ive been on a plane all afternoon and couldnt really be bothered looking for it!!! yeah i think thats the one. I just took a quick look at it though, so cant be sure. will come back to it tomorrow!
     
  7. Venomous1111

    Venomous1111 Well-Known Member

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    No probs
     
  8. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 Guest

    Have you ever had a shallow cut and watched what happens? At first all you see is white flesh. Then there a hundreds of tiny specks of red. Gradually each speck gets bigger until they all coalesce. Then the whole of the cut surface is red and the blood begins to pool and in a while, to drip. These are capillaries which have been severed. They are the smaller blood vessels (tubes). Each is only the diameter of single red blood cell (which are small cells) and you would need a good microscope to see one. Deeper down you have larger vessels, through which more blood flows. Cut one of these and you can instantly see a stream of blood leaking from it, due to the sheer volume of blood flowing through it, compared to a capillary.


    Anticoagulant will not make a wound bleed any faster than if there was no anticoagulant. What it will do is interfere with the sealing off of damaged blood vessels causing prolonged bleeding and slower healing.

    It is always advisable to disinfect any wound. With any deeper wound I tend to squeeze it to encourage bleeding, then wash thoroughly in soapy water, rinse, dry with a clean tissue and apply Betadine and a bandage. Unless the wound is showing signs of infection, I simply re-bandage without Betadine, as required.
     
  9. guzzo

    guzzo Very Well-Known Member

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    I find your reply interesting Bluetounge 1 a bit scary...but interesting
     
  10. tigerwoods

    tigerwoods New Member

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    Guzzo, nice albino.
    Tahlia, great loking diamond.
     
  11. guzzo

    guzzo Very Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Man...she is naughty but nice
     
  12. slim6y

    slim6y Almost Legendary

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    So is there any evidence that python saliva contains an anti-coagulent - I refuse to believe a snake bytes video alone... that's not evidence enough yet...
     
  13. Venomous1111

    Venomous1111 Well-Known Member

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    Your obviously quite a knowledgeable man.. A anticoagulant is a substance that prevents coagulation (clotting) of blood.. Would this be correct, please correct me if I'm wrong... It may not bleed faster but because the blood is not clotting due to the anticoagulant in there saliva is this the reason why python bites give the blood a watered down look which makes it look like there's alot more blood?

    Rob Bredl and Brian Barczyk commented on python bites and them having an anticoagulant in there saliva, whats your thoughts?

    Rob Bredl - Smells a Rat. - YouTube - 1.05

    Snakes Biting! : SnakeBytesTV - YouTube -1.10
     
  14. RSPcrazy

    RSPcrazy Very Well-Known Member

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    This is what python teeth look like.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  15. guzzo

    guzzo Very Well-Known Member

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    Well that clears it up!..Thanks
     
  16. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 Guest

    Venomous,
    I used to teach this for a living.

    Your definition is correct. Blood affected by an anti-coagulant stays watery and fluid. Otherwise, blood will thicken and clot on exposure to air.

    Blood contains a protein called Fibrinogen. This changes to a form called Fibrin which links up to form long fibres. These fibres form a microscope mesh like strands of dry spaghetti tipped out of a pack. The red blood cells get caught in the mesh and stop the further loss of blood, although fluid will often leak through until it dries out a bit. On the outside of the body this forms a visible cover called a scab.

    Calcium ions in the blood are need for the Fibrinogen to Fibrin conversion. In chemical terms, it is relatively easy to "tie up" the calcium to prevent clotting.


    Tristan,
    Swelling results from one of two things - physical damage to cells due to pressure or the detection of foreign matter within a wound. The body responds by making blood vessels at that spot more permeable so that white bloods cells can leave the general circulation and go work on getting rid of dead cellular matter and/or any foreign matter/invaders. In the process you have an increase of fluid leaking from the blood vessels into the surrounding tissue. This also helps facilitate the transport of white blood cells.

    Soreness is due to the swollen tissues causing pressure/pain receptors to be stimulated.

    Redness is due to increased blood flow to the region and when it is sustained for more than a day or so is a good indicator that there is an infection in the area.

    Pus is the dead white blood cells that have ingested bacteria or other matter to kill it or digest it and die in the process. Once again, it is an indictor of infection.

    I don't know what causes the itching.
     
  17. Renenet

    Renenet Very Well-Known Member

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    I did a quick search for anti-coagulant snake saliva in my uni's electronic library. I couldn't find anything. To me, it sounds like rubbish - snakes don't feed specifically on blood - but I'm willing to be proved wrong.
     
  18. guzzo

    guzzo Very Well-Known Member

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    I need to know!!!
     
  19. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 Guest

    Next time you get bitten, save a few drops in a saucer or the likes and see if they clot.
     
  20. slim6y

    slim6y Almost Legendary

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    That's not a fair test.... Would need to be done over a large sample of people and a number of repetitions.

    My suggestion is this... Everyone here (who is not a haemophiliac) should be bitten by their python in roughly the same place. Using a stop watch (we all need the same stopwatch, so I suggest using an internet stopwatch) time how long it takes for the blood to clot.

    We'll repeat this every 7 days for 5 weeks.

    Send me the results and I'll tabulate them. Then I'll write the APS paper on the subject and we'll all become famous (not rich, just famous).

    Disclaimer: If your python eats you it's not my fault.
     
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