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For anyone that lives near the North side of Sydney and wants to see why not to feed lacies food. Go up to a camp ground called Mogo Creek, in Yengo on a nice sunny day and have a picnic. I have not been there once without the lacies actively coming in and taking food, no amount of discouragement short of actually picking them up and carrying them away from the food repeatedly will stop them trying. I have seen them charge both adults, and young children who had no food, just in case they did. This is what happens when lacies get overconfident with people and I have no doubt that one day someone, not unlikely a young child will get bitten and it will turn into a media nightmare for the beautiful lizards.
 
Lizzy benefits, and I do too.
I know you do, but it's questionable whether the lizard does. Living inside without access to a basking spot, humid hide spots etc and being fed cat food (if I remember correctly). However, that's neither here nor there, for Lizzy is a water skink in your home and this post is about feeding lace monitors in a public area.

Now back to the monitor. How do you think wild dogs came to become friendly to humans ?
How do you think a significant number of dingos ended up getting shot on Fraser Island, which is one of the last populations of genetically pure dingoes?

I'd rather toss it a few snags or slices of cut meat and take the opportunity to watch / photograph it eating from a safe distance. It would be prudent to have long solid stick handy in case the lizard become "too insistant" on more yummy stuff.
We already know what you would do. We're talking about what's appropriate. Snags and slices of cut meat are not good for it, for several reasons. Encouraging it to be even bolder around people is just one of them. If you like photographing monitors, why not just photograph them without throwing them food? I have been doing exactly that for years and have thousands of photographs of monitors.

If there are children around then it's up to the parents to tell the children to stay away from the big lizard and control the kids while they are eating. Sorry but this is just common sense. Little kids don't know big lizards bite and don't know that grabbing a big wild lizard can be hazardous.
We're not talking about little kids approaching monitors, we're talking about kids minding their own business with a bit of food in their hand (or even just the smell of food that's already been eaten) when a monitor walks up and bites. This has even happened to adults in places I know of where monitors are fed by the public. In one instance, the adult wasn't even eating or near food, just lying down on a picnic blanket when a monitor walked up and bit him on the upper arm, doing extensive damage requiring medical treatment. That monitor would never have done that had it not been encouraged to take food from people.

Hell even a little lizard like Lizzy can do some damage if it's grabbed and gets a chance to latch onto soft fingers and the soft fresh between the thumb and fingers.
Anyone that makes a comparison between a water skink bite and the bite of an adult male lace monitor hasn't had any experience with lace monitors.


Be thankful that such a magnificient lizard lives in that park.
Well, duh, why do you think I have been making the comments I've been making? I love seeing lace monitors in the wild, but they get removed from public areas if they bite people and they are only inclined to bite people if they've been fed.

Sorry, but I believe in putting the animal's welfare ahead of personal kicks, ianinoz. Having worked in the zoo industry for years, I could never understand the public's obsession with needing to feed things their own food. I guess it's the personal interaction. It does enough damage in a captive situation but in the wild there are several other factors which make it worse.

I have known many, many "SEMI BELLES" in my time
Is that someone whose mother was a Southern Belle and whose father was a Yankee? ;)

Maybe , or maybe they are just self appointed experts.
Yeah, you're right, what would I know about lace monitors compared to the likes of you.
 
Who ever knew talking to a wall could be this entertaining:)!
 
but why can't we take it as it is and appreciate the fact that someone had a wonderful experience, you guys have warned us all about feeding wild lacies, he and all of us will know not to do it again and at the end of the day nobody was hurt?
You're right, it should have ended there, but self-appointed experts like ianinoz keep posting that it's not only okay to feed wild monitors, but that it should be encouraged because it's good for them (with a totally bizarre attempt to compare feeding them to the domestication of dogs, thrown in).
 
Great pics Fred... next time don't feed it though for the reasons already mentioned...

On a side note, I really loved your talk at the VHS David, thanks so much for coming down and sharing your knowledge with us.
One question... what happens when you need to throw away the rug ;).
 
On a side note, I really loved your talk at the VHS David, thanks so much for coming down and sharing your knowledge with us.
Thanks! But now I realise you should have invited ianinoz down there to talk instead of me :(

I hadn't realised you were there - I only know you from the forums so you should have come up and introduced yourself. That way I could put a face to the name. Or perhaps you did come up and chat and I haven't yet made the connection between your online nick and your real world persona?

One question... what happens when you need to throw away the rug ;).
I'm going to hold an auction in front of a group of monitor breeders. I often get asked if I'd like to sell it ;)
 
I hadn't realised you were there - I only know you from the forums so you should have come up and introduced yourself. That way I could put a face to the name. Or perhaps you did come up and chat and I haven't yet made the connection between your online nick and your real world persona?


I'm going to hold an auction in front of a group of monitor breeders. I often get asked if I'd like to sell it ;)

Nah.. I did'nt come up to say hi... should have but I left right after the second talk so I did'nt get the chance to "mingle" (early start the next day).
 
Mmmmm ..... plenty of personal attacks in this thread by the "experts".

Pretty abusive actually. Well if that makes them feel superior or that it proves how expert they are good for them.

I wont be responding further in this thread , it's become a flame-fest..
 
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Mmmmm ..... plenty of personal attacks in this thread by the "experts".

Pretty abusive actually. Well if that makes them feel superior or that it proves how expert they are good for them.

I wont be responding further in this thread , it's become a flame-fest..
Oh, and you're just a set upon wallflower, ianinoz? Why not take a deep breath and read through the thread carefully, while taking notes as to who started the ad hominem attacks. Before you jumped in with your vast wisdom based on a single water skink, the conversation was about monitors, but you decided to add these little snips below so a few of us decided to return the favour.
I think those who are making negative comments on this guys encounter are taking themselves why too seriously
Maybe , or maybe they are just self appointed experts.
Here's a tip I learned from my parents when I was in short pants and at school: If you don't want to be attacked, don't start the attack yourself.
 
Mmmmm ..... plenty of personal attacks in this thread by the "experts".

Pretty abusive actually. Well if that makes them feel superior or that it proves how expert they are good for them.

I wont be responding further in this thread , it's become a flame-fest..

I think any personalisation of the comments made here was started by you ianinoz, with your less than pleasant sarcasm concerning 'expertise'... I haven't seen anything I would call abusive. You can certainly question my expertise with adult Lacies - I only have three of them and have never bred them, but when you dismiss the sage advice of crocdoc, you are simply exhibiting your ignorance.

Do you have Lace Monitors? I've had these three lizards for several years now, and know them very well. Anyone who has significant experience with Lacies, especially 'tame' Lacies, will tell you NEVER TAKE THEM FOR GRANTED... In the event of an accident, at the very least stitches may be needed, but don't rule out microsurgery to repair deep damage, and/or massive antibiotic therapy to combat serious infection. A friend of mine was hospitalised and on an antibiotic drip for 3 days when he was bitten while removing a wild Lacie from the enclosure where orphan wallabies were kept...

They are indeed grand lizards, but only a petulant fool would dismiss the advice of someone like DK...


Jamie
 
If all of the above is a bit too personal for you, ianinoz, how about if we just examine some of your contributions to this thread rationally and with the full seriousness with which you feel they deserve:

Hell even a little lizard like Lizzy can do some damage if it's grabbed and gets a chance to latch onto soft fingers and the soft fresh between the thumb and fingers.
Here's a photo of a water skink bite. Oh, no, wait - I've got that wrong. It's a photo of a lace monitor bite. My mistake. I presume you have some photos of water skink bites for comparison, ianinoz?
105979386.jpg



I think those who are making negative comments on this guys encounter are taking themselves why too seriously and making a bigger issue out of this than it warants.
That photo was of the wrist of a grown man, bitten by a captive lace monitor. After this photo was taken the mate whose wrist that is said he was happy the monitor didn't manage to get a good, solid bite on his wrist (according to him it was just a glancing bite), because if it had his tendons would have been severed and his hand functions would never have been the same again. Maybe you don't see the potential of a child being bitten on the hand by a wild lace monitor (add bacterial soup from a carrion-eating, dirty bite to the physical damage caused by the teeth) as being serious, ianinoz, but many of us see it differently. The ones that do take it seriously have spent time around lace monitors, both captive and wild, and know what they are like. I've seen how wild lace monitors react when they've learned that people are a source of food and I've also seen a few too many close calls between both children and adults around wild lace monitors, while hearing from rangers about other instances that went beyond close calls and about the forced removal of lace monitors from picnic areas as a consequence. No one wins. People suffer physical damage, animals get removed from their own environment, all so someone can get a kick out of seeing something eat. This isn't an attack on you fredsnugget, for I'm sure you got the message three pages ago in this thread!

ianinoz, did you get my reference to the dingoes on Fraser Island, after you tried comparing feeding lace monitors to the domestication of wild dogs? Dingoes are normally quite shy animals, but years of people feeding them on Fraser Island have made them bolder and there have consequently been a number of attacks on humans, most notably the death of a nine year old boy a number of years ago. Rangers then went in and killed several of the dingoes, the ones that have been scavenging for food from people. That cull was something the Fraser Island dingo population could ill afford. Because of its isolation from the mainland, the dingoes there are probably the purest population in Australia, with no feral dog genes, and they should be conserved rather than destroyed. It is illegal to feed the dingoes and doing so attracts a heavy fine, as well as instant removal of the perpetrator from the island, all for good reason. Clearly monitors are not going to kill anyone as the dingoes have, but the basic message is the same. We all love the outdoors, love seeing animals in the wild and I'm sure no one here likes to hear stories about animals being forcibly removed from the environment, whether it's relocated or culled (I suspect that Geckphotographer is correct in that most are destroyed rather than relocated) - is it really that important for you to get a kick out of feeding wildlife that the risk of human injury/animal removal is worth it?

Look, take photos, resist the temptation to feed - it's not rocket science.

So, are we going to let this thread die, now, or would you like to keep going?
 
I'd much rather a bite from a lacie than a EWS.. have you seen what damage the little things can do!.
Beautiful animals, shame people feed them but you'll always have the uneducated thinking " oh it's getting a free feed, what can go wrong?". Then bam, stumps for fingers.
 
Crocdoc I actually think the potential of a Lacey killing a little kid is there. All it would take is a similar bite like that pic on a kids leg to sever the femoral artery. I can't believe how some people don't realise how potentially deadly this encounter could be.
Just my 2 cents but the risk is there.
 
Well said, David. That bite pic is horrific, and to think that's only basically a nip..!

ianinoz, you seem to enjoy telling people they know nothing and are inexperienced, yet if they respond to you, you take it as a personal attack (and it's not the first time either). A personal attack is an attack on someones personal life, not if they point you out of the crowd to right your wrongs with fact and experience to avoid confusion. Besides, you are the one who started these so called 'attacks' in the first place?..

If anything you (and others who feel the same way as you do) should be taking on board what everyone has said in this thread, as Jamie (Pythoninfinite) has more years of experience with herps than you've been alive, and David (crocdoc) has kept/bred/studied monitors (especially lacies) for well over a decade or 2 and works with them at zoo's etc.

Instead of just calling them 'self appointed experts' and going against what they say when they are only trying to help, how about you just sit back and absorb the knowledge...
 
Mmmmm ..... plenty of personal attacks in this thread by the "experts".

Pretty abusive actually. Well if that makes them feel superior or that it proves how expert they are good for them.

I wont be responding further in this thread , it's become a flame-fest..

your so called "Expert" has been keeping and breeding these creatures well before you where probably born , some respect shown will equal respect given ,

flames only appear when there is fuel and you my friend are a bag a coal just waiting to be burnt :lol:
 
Ever since being bitten on the finger by a small Spotted Tree Monitor (Water Skink sized) I have the utmost respect for monitors of all types. It had a vice like clamp and left me with a deep little cut down to the bone.

Anyone who knows Mertens Water Monitors might regard them as "placid and friendly". They will often allow you to creep closely for a photo, or crawl out of the water and bask on a rock right next to you. Whilst trying to set up lunch at an NT picnic ground, a large Mertens was charging members of our group obviously intent on trying to get food. This resulted in most of the adults seeking refuge up on the table! What seemed funny at first was actually quite frightening for many. Wildlife needs wild food; feeding animals can cause all sorts of problems fo r both animals and people.

And here's a photo taken by a friend of a Storrs Monitor "Handle with care"

Handle with care photo - Alexander Dudley photos at pbase.com
 
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David that photo is insane! It looks more like your friend had a go at himself with a razor blade. It's scary and impressive at the same time
 
Fabulous photos! I like the storr's photo - you can see the blood has begun to clot... Having worked at the WA Museum for most of my life, and made replicas of many reptiles including monitors, I've had the chance to examine these beasties close up & personal on many occasions. We never killed anything to work on them, we were always able to get good roadkill material to set up & cast, but any examination of the dentition these guys have will tell the observer that their mouths are full of serrated teeth that are literally as sharp as razors (I'm not joking - look at the shreds of skin on the wrist in the photo). When put to use, along with powerful jaw muscles, the combination can do awesome damage to soft-bodied things like humans.

Trust them at your peril!

Jamie
 
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