Woah

Discussion in 'Other Animals and Invertebrate' started by Oscar's, Jan 2, 2018.

  1. cement

    cement Subscriber Subscriber APS Veteran

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    thanks for your honesty guys. My wife is in the natural health industry and has a personal friend who is a GP. This friend (she's a GP ok so she has knowledge right?), didn't let her own kids get vaccinated for SOME things. Others she did, but she denied them a select few saying that the risk was just too high.
    We are told that vaccines have saved millions blah, blah , blah, but consider this..... Are the great acheivements credited to vaccination really a result of vaccination?
    Because along the way, we have also had an increase (thanks to technology) in better overall health, for example the importance of washing hands, better sewerage disposal, better sanitation, better ways of dealing with our own rubbish, better plumbing, better more healthier homes being built, more awareness about simple things like excersise and diet, better ways to farm. Improvements to our way of life.
    My kids had pet rabbits for a while and I noticed that they were getting slack on the fresh water dept. The health of the animals was beginning to deteriorate. I made a concerted effort to make sure I gave them fresh water every day and every other day washed their water bowls. The health of the rabbits quickly improved and they went on to breed me lots of snake food. Only fresh clean water! If they contracted disease which they would of, it would be because of stress brought about by the lack of fresh water. If I had taken a sick rabbit to the vet they would have given it a name and medication.
    20 odd years ago, I moved from the tweed valley down here to the central coast. I'm a builder so I was working with plumbers who have worked in the area a long time. When I mentioned the fish kill that happened in Cochrane Lagoon at Copacabana, (literally hundreds of dead juvenile bream and other species), they told me that it had only been 2 years previous that Copa had been fully connected to the sewer system. Which meant that before then septic tanks had been leaching raw sewerage into the ground which ultimatly would end up in the lagoon. These guys did not like the idea of swimming in the lagoon at all. So we are told by our govt and by the drug companies who are very unethical, that we have vaccination to thank , but it may not be so 100%.
    My daughter has a girlfriend whose little brother received a vaccination. That night he experienced fever and sickness, and was admitted to hospital. He was perfectly healthy, before the jab. The fevers were so bad with such prolonged high temps that he now as a late teenager has the mental equivalent of a 4-5 yr old. These are real people and a real case. When I go back to see my practitioner in two weeks I will get and put a link up here to studies being done on the link between vaccination and autism.

    as bluetongue has shown us, we should be fully informed and screening done before immunisation, but thankfully others have come on and backed me up that we are not.

    Please note - I am not attempting to belittle, argue, point fingers etc just plain old healthy debate, which may open awareness. We have the right to good solid health, and the right choose how we acheive that. As adults we have the right to trust our instincts rather then being told by someone who doesn't know us, let alone care about us to force us to do anything at all , that may or may not affect this.
     
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  2. jahan

    jahan Active Member

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    "Now, consider that a human liver function test as done by our local GP's by bloods, can only pick up when a liver is damaged to the point of almost complete failure, it cannot pick up a liver that is just (for want of a better word) sluggish, overloaded or struggling to perform at best levels".
    This is true on the Kidneys as my sons Kidneys failed because of some medication he was on. His Nephrologist told him that they can only tell if he has 50% of function back but they can`t tell how much. He still sees his Nephrologist every 12mths now after 7yrs of his Kidneys failing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  3. cement

    cement Subscriber Subscriber APS Veteran

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    Sorry to hear that Jahan, I have another mate who's boy was affected much the same.

    "In an era where we have more scientists, doctors, medical personnel, dieticians, nutritionists, hospitals, pharmaceuticals, community support services, health bureaucrats, medical researches and facilities and more govt investment in health...... we have never been more collectively sick in the known history of the human race."

    "Today, the global revenue generated by the pharmaceutical sector is in the vicinity of US$1 Trillion, up from US$390 Billion in 2001, and a mere US$6 Billion in 1980, when the obesity epidemic could be said to have commenced." quotes from "eating ourselves sick" by L. Stephan.

    For anyone who is interested to get an insight into how large corporations have played a major role in our declining health as a whole, and anyone who is stuck in the medical system where we pay for treatment rather then outcome, this book "Eating ourselves sick", by Louise Stephen I highly recommend. It is very well researched.

    For you Jahan, the author of this book, has been through similar to your son, which was the reason she wrote it, for everyone else... you may just find yourself in here too.
    The foreword is by DR Ross Walker, MB BS(Hons), FRACP, FCANZ who is a consulting cardiologist in Sydney. I mention this so that people like Blutongue1 who have a resistance to anything other then scientific "hard data", may be interested too. Its full of hard data.
    Definetly worth the $35 I paid.
     
  4. RoryBreaker

    RoryBreaker Well-Known Member

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    I still have nothing worthwhile to add.
    tenor (4).gif
     
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  5. cement

    cement Subscriber Subscriber APS Veteran

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    ha! i agree
     
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  6. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 APS Veteran APS Veteran

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    Have been preoccupied and cannot keep up with the posts. So this one relates to several posts ago.

    It is very disappointing to hear that vaccinations are given without the screening questionnaire being given to parents. The handbook and questionnaire is produced by the Federal Government but it seems vaccination procedures are under the control of state governments. You would expect that the Federal govt. would at least make the reporting of severe adverse events following immunisation compulsory, but going by the wording in the handbook it is only very strongly recommended. So its up to the individual medical practioner – which I consider an absolutely crap arrangement. People have a right to make informed decisions on these things but how can they do that with confidence when all relevant information does not have to be put onto the public record? That aside, @cement: Do you know which vaccine it was that your wife’s GP friend refused?

    I guess what I initially reacted to was the “all these things have changed for the worse, so therefore they are all part of the cause” logic. Good science is about investigating and determining causal links to identify those factors which are definitely involved. A recent example is identifying the Sunshine Virus as being responsible for the OPMV like symptoms and deaths of a large number of snakes in Australian collections. If a causative factor or factors is/are at work, then that causative factor or factors should show up in each case. That’s what ‘hard data’ means to me. There are far too many cases of people associating cause and effect based on timing and often a singular event and then making generalised claims of causality. Some even invent claims. It generates a lot of misinformation that confuses issues rather clarifying them. There is a lot of misinformation out there and it is not easy to sieve through.

    While I stuck my hand up in defence of the medical system, that does not mean I am not critical of certain aspects of it. Most people probably have a ‘horror story’ to tell and I am no exception. Yet if all we hear are the negative stories, then it paints an unbalanced picture and that’s not fair. GPs vary in their abilities. They are like mechanics – when you find a good one you stick with them. I also have no hesitation in recommending people seek a second or even third opinion where they feel the particular practioner is not helping. That goes for specialists as well, where I consider it is even more important to shop around for someone with an established reputation for being effective and conservative (explores other options before invasive treatments like surgery). I won’t even start on the corruption and abuse of power at high levels to the detriment of everyday people.
     
  7. cement

    cement Subscriber Subscriber APS Veteran

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    If you read the book I mentioned, I guess you realise that causative factors are multiple. Because an individual large organism, as complex as a human being, is exactly that, an individual. We are governed by (react a certain way to different chemicals etc) such things as genetic differences, environmental differences (diet, lifestyle, habitat), wether we are male or female, even right down to way we enter the world, ie natural birth or caesarian.
    Not to mention the multi faceted society we live in and how that is run. Yes there is a lot of misinformation, the author of this book does a brilliant job sifting through it for us. Most of the misinformation unfortunately, comes from the very people who are directly responsible for state, country ,world health.

    In an earlier post I was told I was misinformed about liver function testing, and was given details about just how good the testing really is. Then I was told that physical screening was just to complicated to be worth doing.... I find this slightly contradictory. Because though you mentioned some obvious simple facts about our livers, the main function of the liver is detoxification (immunity and digestion as well). But, seeing a liver function test is done simply from blood samples, would not this be the easiest and simplest way to do a check to see if our main organ that will be dealing with the poison that we receive, can take it?? If the test is so complete as you say it is, surely it would be good enough.

    Anyway..... immunisation aside, it's not the only factor no matter how small, that we are become more and more prone to worsening allergies, increased auto-immune disease, more rates of cancer, or more obese, or hammered by type 2 diabetes. The point is, every thing is intrinsically linked in this world, if you are genuinely interested in how it works and fits together, and the history of how it came about, take a look at that book. It explains a lot, and when you get the picture, you may even understand how you can avoid becoming one of these statistics, or if you already are one, a way of at least achieving better quality of life, putting yourself into remission, maybe even outright cure.

    Our friend denied her two boys whooping cough vaccine.
     
  8. sp.michael

    sp.michael Not so new Member

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    Liver function is unimportant to vaccination, the majority of ingredients within a vaccine are metabolised elsewhere. Individuals suffering from chronic liver disease are advised to take vaccines to reduce the risk of additional diseases when having a compromised immune system. And it is undeniable that vaccines have saved millions of lives globally, that clean living and washing hands otherwise wouldn't. Measles, smallpox, muphs, polio, tb, all basically non-existent with the aid of vaccines. In any case, the majority of side effects from vaccines occur from allergic reactions to gelatin, with 3 in 10,000 experiencing some side effect and one in two million having severe reactions such as anaphylaxis.
     
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  9. cement

    cement Subscriber Subscriber APS Veteran

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    So what your saying is that if you have a long term (chronic) liver disease, and a compromised immunity system, you would allow yourself to be pumped with not just one but many different vaccines?

    read the conclusion to this paper.
    http://www.bioline.org.br/pdf?gm06043

    You are getting way off track and away from the point.

    I think the liver is the only organ that can regenerate if its not to far gone, which is damn lucky.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
  10. sp.michael

    sp.michael Not so new Member

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    That paper itself states "There is little doubt that the benefits of the vaccine overall for [far] outweigh its risks (9)". Showing that the authors concluded, even after finding these results, that it was worthwhile to be taking the vaccine. Further that paper only follows one individual, not exactly a valid source to be deriving conclusions from.
     
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  11. cement

    cement Subscriber Subscriber APS Veteran

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    The point your missing is that I have never said anything about wether vaccines work or not. It also says this.

    "In conclusion, it is prudent to keep in mind that hepatitis B vaccine can be responsible for the hepatotoxicity."

    Definition -Hepatotoxicity (from hepatic toxicity) implies chemical-driven liver damage. Drug-induced liver injury is a cause of acute and chronic liver disease.


    Unless you just want to argue, simply answer my question. Would you personally feel comfortable taking multiple vaccinations (which are mostly serums carrying either dead or disabled cells of extremely dangerous bacteria or virus) at a time when your liver was barely functioning? OR your children?

    We are amazed by the number of deaths per year by bees, but that number is minute to the number of deaths due to prescription drugs. Add to that the deaths related to overdose on prescription drugs. Now that is 'WOAH".
     
  12. jahan

    jahan Active Member

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    Thankyou Cement. Will def get that book to read.. The medicine that caused his Kidneys to fail was prescribed to him by a Cardiologist. It was Coversyl Plus. They told him the plus part of it that was the problem. He now takes Coversyl without the plus part. Vaccines are forced upon us by the Government by their no jab no play policy. I wonder how many of these refugees have been vaccinated, I doubt very much if any are and if the same appllies to them. The measles out brake that has been going around seems to be more on people that have been vaccinated than not. Same as flu vacs people that where vaccinated still got the flu.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
  13. cement

    cement Subscriber Subscriber APS Veteran

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    Hey Jahan,
    Only the foreword at the beginning is written by a cardiologist, not the whole book. It's written by a women who was struck down by a kidney disease and eventually got a transplant. This is a quote from his foreword, "there is a lot of books on the market telling us what is wrong with our health and giving us a variety of solutions, but Louise Stephen explains why we are where we are: historically, politically and scientifically. In "eating ourselves sick", she clearly explains the vested interests of money and power operating in many spheres of health, and how these vested interests are often part of the reason we have the extraordinary burden of chronic disease we are now seeing in our modern society.'
     
  14. jahan

    jahan Active Member

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    Ok Thanks Cement.
     
  15. cement

    cement Subscriber Subscriber APS Veteran

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  16. jahan

    jahan Active Member

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    That was a great read Cement. "It has been documented that vaccinated persons who develop breakthrough measles are contagious. In fact, two major measles outbreaks in 2011 (in Quebec, Canada, and in New York, NY) were re-imported by previously vaccinated individuals.[6] – [7]" I wasn`t far out. I`m sure there`s alot of haters out there that would differ. Turnbull should of stood down. We only have a vote in elections to give the public the thought that they had a say in things and the outcome is already predetermind in their favor.
     
  17. cement

    cement Subscriber Subscriber APS Veteran

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    @jahan ,

    It is a good read isn't it mate. Well researched, well documented, the history behind our society and why we are where we are.
    This is an interesting website for anyone who wants to be informed about wether or not to vaccinate themselves or their kids. I'm not advocating anything, one way or the other, I just think its important to have information at hand so we can make an informed choice. Don't worry about the haters, there generally uninformed people who simply believe and follow on what they are told or what they hear, plus they have the right to pump themselves full of whatever they want, if they want

    https://avn.org.au
    I have to admit, I was sceptical about this website before I checked it out. But now I'm wishing it had been around 27 years ago, when vaccines were pushed on me and my missus, and our kids.
     
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