You know the market is changing when...

[Crystal..Discus]

yep . buy a $50 snake - it gets sick and have a choice between a $100+ vet bill or another $50 snake .

Suppose it comes down to how much you love your reptiles - if it's as pets or as an investment. I got my Cockatiel for $50. When she was two, I ended up spending a grand on vet bills before she died (She was born with psittacosis among other things.) I've also met breeders who don't give a rats *** about their birds - they'll breed siblings to get the colours and variations they want, but if the entire clutch dies, it's more "I wasted all that money!" rather than "I think there's something wrong...maybe I should get a biopsy done."

I'm happy to see the prices come down, and the availability go up. I know there are some smart breeders who only breed their snakes every few years to make sure there's always high market value for them, but that's the way it should be.

Too much of one thing is never a good idea.

 

[AM Pythons]

how many would just end up dumped in the bush? lots i rekon..

 

[Waterrat]

I know there are some smart breeders who only breed their snakes every few years to make sure there's always high market value for them, but that's the way it should be.

If you are a "smart breeder" and breed only every few years, the "not so smart breeders" will take over your niche and you will be out in the cold. Think about that.

 

[Laghairt]

I don't believe falling prices will kill the hobby, on the contrary I think as reptiles become more accessible the hobby will expand. Most species of snake are WAY overpriced in this country, and you only have to look at what's being dumped on the market right now to see there is a big adjustment already taking place. I used to live in the USA and you could buy hatchling Anacondas or Burmese pythons for $20 but the proportion of people involved in keeping reptiles is much higher than it is here, so any suggestion falling prices will kill the hobby is rubbish.

I'm hearing a lot of whining from people about how their profits are going to fall, which indicates they aren't in it for the right reasons anyway. People in the USA do it for the love of it as they know they won't make any money. The lower prices will also weed out all the rip of merchants and crooks who are all too common on the Australian herp scene.

 

[Laghairt]

I might also add that there are very few serious dog/cat and other breeders that make big profits out of breeding but is the popularity of dogs and cats falling?

 

[varanid_mike]

Last season we took in (lost reptiles home) a huge amount of just coastal carpets that people just don't want, housing and feeding them can be a bit of an issue but re-homing them is the biggest problem. In talking to the previous lost reptile’s home operator and going over what we have had in this season I was made aware that the numbers of reptiles lost, dumped or handed in had never been this high. And considering the DSE changed it from one shelter to two; there is a lot of unwanted herps already out there.

 

[Kristy_07]

Last season we took in (lost reptiles home) a huge amount of just coastal carpets that people just don't want, housing and feeding them can be a bit of an issue but re-homing them is the biggest problem. In talking to the previous lost reptile’s home operator and going over what we have had in this season I was made aware that the numbers of reptiles lost, dumped or handed in had never been this high. And considering the DSE changed it from one shelter to two; there is a lot of unwanted herps already out there.

Hey maybe you should post a new thread on this. I'd adopt some. I love unwanted mongrels.... dogs, snakes, men...

 

[eitak]

Hey maybe you should post a new thread on this. I'd adopt some. I love unwanted mongrels.... dogs, snakes, men...

men . . haha love it

But agreed unwanted snakes? send em my way!!!

 

[Kenshin]

you cannot compaire reptile hobby to people keeping cats and dogs, reptiles are by no means "mainstream" in australia and majority of the population still harbour ridiculous phobea's about snakes and even worse there is an even higher percent of the population that still has the old "the only good snake is a dead snake" moto

further more with the cost of living in australia on the increase it is no longer viable for alot of people to keep large collections, which is what most hobbiest aspire to

look at the raises in power in WA there has been several HUGE increases in power rates in a short time we are talking 20-38% increase per time they jacked it up

i have kept reptiles since i was 12 and i love reptiles from the boring old coastals through to the strikeing RPM's but with the cost of keeping my hobby and my real life financial responsabilitys i will only be able to afford to maintain the herps that are "worth" breeding so they pay for the many thousands of dollars in power, food, good quality enclosures ect i couldent care less about my time as it is a hobby

 

[Laghairt]

Agreed

Setting up a free to good home thread is a great idea, I have no doubt there would be plenty of people out there who would be interested, myself included. It would also help to push the artificially high prices to a more realistic level more quickly.

 

[Waterrat]

I don't believe falling prices will kill the hobby, on the contrary I think as reptiles become more accessible the hobby will expand. Most species of snake are WAY overpriced in this country, and you only have to look at what's being dumped on the market right now to see there is a big adjustment already taking place. I used to live in the USA and you could buy hatchling Anacondas or Burmese pythons for $20 but the proportion of people involved in keeping reptiles is much higher than it is here, so any suggestion falling prices will kill the hobby is rubbish.

and how many of those $20.- pythons and boas ended up in the Everglades? Responsible Americans? Why is the US authority taking steps to ban large snakes?

 

[Pythons Rule]

you cannot compaire reptile hobby to people keeping cats and dogs, reptiles are by no means "mainstream" in australia and majority of the population still harbour ridiculous phobea's about snakes and even worse there is an even higher percent of the population that still has the old "the only good snake is a dead snake" moto

further more with the cost of living in australia on the increase it is no longer viable for alot of people to keep large collections, which is what most hobbiest aspire to

look at the raises in power in WA there has been several HUGE increases in power rates in a short time we are talking 20-38% increase per time they jacked it up

i have kept reptiles since i was 12 and i love reptiles from the boring old coastals through to the strikeing RPM's but with the cost of keeping my hobby and my real life financial responsabilitys i will only be able to afford to maintain the herps that are "worth" breeding so they pay for the many thousands of dollars in power, food, good quality enclosures ect i couldent care less about my time as it is a hobby

I agree with you Kenshin on everything here.

 

[Laghairt]

you cannot compaire reptile hobby to people keeping cats and dogs, reptiles are by no means "mainstream" in australia and majority of the population still harbour ridiculous phobea's about snakes and even worse there is an even higher percent of the population that still has the old "the only good snake is a dead snake" moto

I agree and one of the reasons it is not mainstream is the prohibitive cost. If the price were to fall more people would be keeping snakes making them more familiar which would help to do away with the "the only good snake is a dead snake" moto.

Additionally, if you are worried about the costs of running your collection, wouldn't the expenses involved in building a collection be significantly reduced if the initial cost of purchasing snakes was lower? The costs of running a collection are completely independent of what is going on in the domestic snake market.

 

[Laghairt]

and how many of those $20.- pythons and boas ended up in the Everglades? Responsible Americans? Why is the US authority taking steps to ban large snakes?

I totally agree, thankfully we don't have the same problem with exotic species here due to sensible legislation. There will always be positive and negative aspects of increased reptile ownership. At least the licensing requirement for many species here will mitigate the negative aspects to some degree.

 

[Kenshin]

having met 100's of narrow minded people who have unfounded phobia's of snakes and nasty attitudes towards snakes for no particular reason other then thats what they were told when younger they are not going to miraculously start loving reptiles like we do and go "oh look i can buy a python for 20 bucks iv changed my tune......"

my whole family has this rediculous attitude towards snakes my mother carrys on like you wouldent belive not being able to talk which i think is bullsht as theres no reason for the phobia nothing of note has happened in most peoples childhood to create the phobia most people have for snakes, the look on my face when i see people carry on like that especially when they know the animal infront of them is a python and is harmless and even small is "well look at you arnt you a retard.." these reasons will see that reptiles wont be mainstream, people can pick up spotted pythons coastals and darwins for 50-160 bucks if they shop around that is cheaper then alot of cats and dogs.....

if the inital cost of purchasing snakes was that low and i was maintaining a collection the size of what i have now (plus im expanding!) then the actual BARE running costs would definatly run in the red not only that look how hard all these 100 dollar snakes are to move if everyone was selling all these 20 dollar snakes it would be a nightmare to move a single clutch.... my original point never touched on the coast of the actual reptile but on the day to day running costs

 

[Pythons Rule]

I don't think many people will be buying a snake for as little as 20 bucks when the food to feed it is going to be more then that...I don't see prices of rats going down at a pet shop to catter for the decline prices in owning a snake. and what about the yearly costs to owning a reptile licence hmm qld being $50 per year NSW being 250 per so many years etc. theres a reason why the costs of a reptile is so much and thats so people that choose to breed them can actually afford to keep them. if you love the hobby so much why would you want to ruin it buy bumping prices down? seriously when will it end. there are already snakes that are very cheap if your someone that only wants a snake because its a snake then there are cheap snakes out there, but if your a more serious snake hobbiest like myself then save the cash and buy a much nicer snake or 2. if you don't work and you want to maintain your snakes health, living exspenses, food, and breeding exspenses then you will need to make a lil back from the breeding side to be able to continue loving why you do this every year after year. it doesn't have to have anything to do with "being in it for the monie" even though earning a lil back each year helps you out with exspanding the collection is all we ever try work our asses off during the season for..isn't it? to help fund our next projects, to pay for exspences. I tell ya what if snakes where only worth $20 each and I still had to pay $1300+ per year for food, $30 each vet check ups, $130 - 900. for mats to build there enclosures per year there would be no way in hell my husband would let me keep them.

 

[Bushfire]

I think we have made it as easy and simply to get reptiles as it should be. Every effort to avoid making reptiles (even some species) disposable should be explored. I wouldn't want to see some species drop in price any further. To realistically achieve this maybe breeding should be more controlled.

Maybe its come a time were the lines of hobby and professional breeder need to be more clearly drawn. Control the breedings of hobby keepers. IMO a hobby keeper/breeder doesn't need 20 - 30 species, pumping out 15+ clutches a season, having more than 40 perm resident animals. In species that dont multi clutch, restrict the number of clutches allowed per a species. Making these keepers, be more selectively what they breed, what species most interest them etc.

While a professional breeder (different from a business), pays a hell of a lot more in licence fees, has the huge collection and as many species they like, breed as many clutches as they choose etc. The fee would have to be significant enough to discourage everyone going to this catorgory but encourage breeders to not abandon it, first rights to new species.

 

[ozziepythons]

I'm so very glad I breed out of passion for reptiles and not for profit. If the market has slowed and prices dropped I'm happy to take time to move on offspring at a lower cost to the right kind of keepers. I think many new keepers tempted to invest in cheaply available species will end up with specimens they have little foresight for, and end up with an animal they may have trouble moving on.

 

[Waterrat]

I don't think many people will be buying a snake for as little as 20 bucks when the food to feed it is going to be more then that...I don't see prices of rats going down at a pet shop to catter for the decline prices in owning a snake. and what about the yearly costs to owning a reptile licence hmm qld being $50 per year NSW being 250 per so many years etc.

The problem is, many newbies don't realise that. A goldfish coats 5 bucks but aquarium with filter, heater, ...... $$$$$. Look at the turnover of fishes in pet shops. People (silly people) don't see the additional costs.
Snake, ah, cold blooded reptile only eats now and then, she'll be right in a plastic box ... 20 bucks? Lets get one.
Do you think all reptile owners and "to be owners" are intelligent people?

 

[Fantazmic]

I think that people have to forget about making money out of breeding animals. It just doesnt work. If you can cover your costs you are doing really well. if you manage to make money youa re extremely lucky !!

I have been involved in breeding staffords. The 'pet' market gives the opportunity for people to buy a cheap pup. Those of us breeding thoroughbred animals have found that the quality of the line ensures that the price does hold. You find there are people who deicde to pay the price for a quality animal and those who wont. I havent ever had any problems selling my pups and refuse to deal with people who 'negoitate" downwards. having said that.......with all the costs of breeding 'properly" i have just managed to break even and consider myself every lucky in that.

Really I think breeding snakes should be considered as something that you do for enjoyment...not to make money. I know my hubby and I would be looking at the cost of actually breeding that is over and above what it costs us to keep out snakes and if we can recover that we will be very happy.