You know the market is changing when...

[Pythons Rule]

wow thats quite exspensive for a childreni unless its some special morph or something

 

[syeph8]

A lot of people seem to have a fundamentally flawed concept of supply and demand... prices will drop because more people want pet snakes and there are more available. Nothing you can do about it.

Pythons Rule for some reason I couldn't quote your post, but in it you say "it should be classed as a job"- I bet if you were told to get an ABN and start paying tax you wouldn't think that way.

Also some people have been saying to start out with more common species, breed and trade to less common/higher end species and then a few lines later in the same post criticising how people should stop breeding spotteds because there are so many thousands available. Come on people get your arguments straight haha

agree with some of what you are saying throughout this thread mate.. but your argument for supply/demand just made no sense. you basically just said that supply and demand will increase. surely then prices will remain the same? this, for me is a wait and see game. remembering that not everyone who breeds does it for money, but for the fun of breeding (this may be the part of the hobby that interests people the most) and also your snakes WANT to breed. its what they were built to do and they are much better for it. if theres too much flooding of the market, then perhaps maximum clutch sizes per females or something? but would a roughie, GTP, or albino olive breeder be allowed to keep more than a couple of eggs aswell? i personally say play it out and see where we go. does it really matter that much if you cant make a **** tonne of money out of it? i mean, covering costs would be great, but being realistic, there arent too many hobbies that exist where you break even, so be glad that you have an outside shot at it in this one. just have fun doing what you're doing

Sye

 

[Laghairt]

waruikazi, I think you're on the money. It seems like there's a lot of people who think it's their god given right to make money from reptiles, and in the past it has been much easier to do that. But guess what? Times have changed! There are very few true hobbies that run at a profit, that's the difference between a hobby and a job.

 

[slim6y]

wow thats quite exspensive for a childreni unless its some special morph or something

An Earlvillian Childreni

(for those that don't know Cairns... Earlville is one of the oldest suburbs of Cairns and hence has some of the oldest morphs)

 

[Waterrat]

waruikazi, I think you're on the money. It seems like there's a lot of people who think it's their god given right to make money from reptiles, and in the past it has been much easier to do that. But guess what? Times have changed! There are very few true hobbies that run at a profit, that's the difference between a hobby and a job.

So, close down pet shops selling reptiles, close down URS, SR, SxR and anybody else who makes living out of reptiles because it's not their god given right to make profit. Times are changing - welcome to the world of socialism where everybody can have everything for nothing and all are equal. Viva Fidel!

 

[Nathan_T]

So, close down pet shops selling reptiles, close down URS, SR, SxR and anybody else who makes living out of reptiles because it's not their god given right to make profit. Times are changing - welcome to the world of socialism where everybody can have everything for nothing and all are equal. Viva Fidel!

It's interesting that you make a socialism joke when you're arguing for market fixing. Welcome to the world of capitalism comrade, where if URS, SR, SxR or whoever decide they want to inflate prices, they'll be taken out of the market by people who offer more competitive prices. I somehow don't see why snake breeding for profit should be treated any differently to anything other form of business

 

[waruikazi]

So, close down pet shops selling reptiles, close down URS, SR, SxR and anybody else who makes living out of reptiles because it's not their god given right to make profit. Times are changing - welcome to the world of socialism where everybody can have everything for nothing and all are equal. Viva Fidel!

I think you miss the point. I don't see anything wrong with making money off reptiles, if you do the hard yards then i think it's great. But if you are a hobbiest, like i am, just be thankful for what you reap and try not to crack the sads if you don't cover your costs or make money. You don't go into a hobby to make money, you do it because you enjoy it.

 

[Waterrat]

Where you got this idea that I am for price fixing? What price? I follow the market prices like everyone else does, you just don't know what my prices are. I also don't see why why snake breeding for profit should be treated any differently to anything other form of business, our friend anouc does. According to him it's a hobby and that's it.
It's getting bit hot, logging out.

 

[Laghairt]

So, close down pet shops selling reptiles, close down URS, SR, SxR and anybody else who makes living out of reptiles because it's not their god given right to make profit. Times are changing - welcome to the world of socialism where everybody can have everything for nothing and all are equal. Viva Fidel!

LOL, Waterrat if you only understood how little sense that comment made you'd be laughing with me. Glad to see someone understands economics Nathan .

 

[Twin_Rivers]

People are going to make money from the hobby, but I feel that it won't be as easy as it has in the past. IT is simple market competition and only the people who are willing to put the effort in will make money. Places like URS, SR, SXR will still make monoey as they are established and are smart in how and where they promote their businesses. Then there are the guys that breed for the love of it the two best animals they have because they have to know what the offspring will be like they will have those high end animals the ones that make you go "oh yeah i want one of those" the people that are going to struggle to make money are the guys that aren't very smart, that buy the cheapest pair they can find put them together and try and sell the offspring , usually to their uninformed mates, they come out with a $500- $600 from a clutch thinking oh yeah pure profit not realising it cost them around that to get the hatchlings up to sale size. These people I think will only do this for one or two seasons as it becomes harder for them to sell their very average animals.
for most people who keep reptiles it is a passion, for a few it is a status (making up for other things) and for a few it is to get as much out of the hobby as they can, I think the people who are smart will be trying to breed better animals not throwing every pair together just because they have a pair and I'll be able to get a few from bucks from the offspring. they may be breeding a few less but they should be able to get a better price for the animals that they do breed.
Prices will be cheaper but I will always be paying for my reptiles in one way or another.
sorry gone on a little bit.
Phil

 

[Pythons Rule]

this is what I was trying to say before. I agree a 100% with what Twin has said.

 

[ShadowDragon]

The people who own SXR have other businesses which will keep them fed and clothed. They wouldn't suddenly be destitute if the snake side of the business were to cease. URS sell products other than animals, and I thought Snake Ranch was part of the ARP? Let's not pretend for a second that these are all people incapable of putting a roof over their heads without making money from animals.

 

[Waterrat]

I don't doubt that ShadowDragon, I know these people personally and they will not only survive but they will do very well without breeding and selling reptiles. It's the rest of the herp community that will be worse off if these business streamline their production.
My understanding of economics tells me that if prices drop to rock bottom, these businesses (the breeding / selling part) will go to the wall along with the backyard breeders who produce run of the mill average animals. I don't wish to see that happen and it has nothing to do with price fixing. The explosion of the reptile keeping hobby we have seen in the last few years is over, the recruitment of newbies and the drop off rate plateaued and the market will adjust itself accordingly. Just don't take the "god given right" to make money from this hobby away from anybody because it would also take away the opportunity from those wishing to elevate from the hobby to profession or business.

 

[slim6y]

I personally think we're all just speculating a little... or a lot.... in fact a huge amount...

Don't let the truth get in the way of a great speculation!

 

[Bushfire]

Forget about so called investment / profits / money. The thing is, wether we agree or not, like it or not; our hobby is dealing with so called 'protected' fauna this sets it apart from any other business and hobby. As it stands now we are seeing more dumped animals with this expected to increase both in numbers and species. How long do you think it will be before more organised publicly supported lobby groups start asking the government how are they protecting this species when x amount of them are being dumped by the hobby. Do you really think the governments response will be? supply and demand will sort that out. They will be forced to regulate more.

My comments a few pages go had a bit more dept to it; as it is rumoured to be planned with the introduction of pet shops in NSW later this year. The reason behind it was to give pet shops a more competitive edge over hobby keepers running large set ups.

 

[dottyback]

Forget about so called investment / profits / money. The thing is, wether we agree or not, like it or not; our hobby is dealing with so called 'protected' fauna this sets it apart from any other business and hobby. As it stands now we are seeing more dumped animals with this expected to increase both in numbers and species. How long do you think it will be before more organised publicly supported lobby groups start asking the government how are they protecting this species when x amount of them are being dumped by the hobby. Do you really think the governments response will be? supply and demand will sort that out. They will be forced to regulate more.

QUOTE]

well said!

 

[PhilK]

Forget about so called investment / profits / money. The thing is, wether we agree or not, like it or not; our hobby is dealing with so called 'protected' fauna this sets it apart from any other business and hobby. As it stands now we are seeing more dumped animals with this expected to increase both in numbers and species. How long do you think it will be before more organised publicly supported lobby groups start asking the government how are they protecting this species when x amount of them are being dumped by the hobby.

What do you mean dumped? Dumped where? I'll come and pick them up.

 

[Bushfire]

Dumped, as in unwanted. The responsible ones surrender them, the irresponsible ones release them into the wild. I'm not sure where in Brissy or QLD to go, but in Vic there is the Reptiles Lost Homes and believe there is now a second place. In NSW, captive reptiles do get handed into NPWS, Wires, and zoos regularly. These are normally distributed back through into the hobby via the herp groups. Maybe you should talk to QLD EPA, a zoo, and the QLD herp society on what they do with animals handed in.

 

[slim6y]

Are you sure Bushfire?

Not saying you're not on to something here... Just maybe I am too naive to see the truth....

I've never heard of or seen any 'dumped' reptiles...

I saw a fat coastal carpet up at Stoney Creek - but I am fairly sure it was a wild one....

So there's a 'reptiles lost home' in Vic?? For abandoned reptiles?

There was a fellow on here thinking of releasing his turtle... but that most certainly doesn't constitute a revolution in dumping reptiles.

However, I'm not saying it doesn't happen... because how else did we get corn snakes and wild cats? So I believe it does - but I doubt it occurs due to 'price' and in fact I'd say it's completely unrelated.

I have an even larger doubt there's going to be organised lobby groups acting on the so called 'lowering of price' for a number of reasons:

1) I've not seen evidence that the 'lesser' species are becoming cheaper - especially considering I saw a childrens python selling for $580.

2) Although the more top of the range reptiles have come down in price it's a combination of healthy competition and supply/demand.

3) Recently a government organisation set up a task force to see if selling other native fauna would help preserve some already endangered species - they were not expecting to sell the animals for high prices as it could make 'poaching' a profitable sport.

Above all - we've got nothing but speculation blowing hot air in a cold fan....

 

[Jimi]

Seems like everyone is expert on reptile prices these days.

I don't see why making money off breeding reptiles is shunned upon on here, if you can make money out doing something you love why not?

It is a hobby so the majority of people doing it will not be making money, but they will be enjoying the experience of owning a reptile.

Everyone seems to be in a panic about the price drop in reptiles, surely most people are not trying to make some coin out of this hobby???