Zebra Carpets

Discussion in 'Australian Snakes' started by nintendont, Aug 20, 2013.

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  1. cement

    cement Subscriber Subscriber APS Veteran

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  2. zulu

    zulu Very Well-Known Member

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    The genetics dont lie just the breeders LOL
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2013
  3. deebo

    deebo Power Seller Power Seller

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    Cement - as I said, I can't argue whether it's pure jungle or not, you either believe it or you don't, same as with any person selling a pure animal. There have been a few morphs randomly pop up in private collections......t+ childreni, t+ stimmi, silver pepper md, albino stimmi,black woma, and probably more i cant think of, dont know of, so the fact some are wild caught means nothing. Some mutations have weaknesses attached with them or for some other reason do not survive as well in the wild, if they didn't they would all be more prevalent in the wild.

    I'm sure a lot of the overseas stock did come straight of our bush into their collections.

    And what about the pearl perthensis that has been produced? They are def from our backyard, the fact someone overseas has produced this morph before us is just plain luck.

    I don't really care whether they are pure jungle or not but some of the points being made in this thread are illogical.
     
  4. jinjajoe

    jinjajoe Very Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely hilarious confrontation between known breeders of albinos (Trueblue, Ramsayi etc & you all profiteered from them) which are ALL defected I should know having bred most of the albino reptiles available.... verses other Mutation breeders....

    If the cap fits where it boys and stop splitting hairs because you are splitting my sides with laughter.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2013
  5. Trimeresurus

    Trimeresurus Guest

    My thoughts exactly, threads full of he said she said with no evidence for much of what is being spewed.
     
  6. Ramsayi

    Ramsayi Very Well-Known Member APS Veteran

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    Huge difference breeding albs V smuggled morphs.Albs also don't come with neuro issues or deformed tails.
     
  7. jinjajoe

    jinjajoe Very Well-Known Member

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    Poached Vs Smuggled...... Difference ?? reduced vigour, reduced fertility, slower growth rates Vs neuro, tail kinks etc.... Difference ???

    not 13 pages worth anyway.... Live and let live as there isnt any moral high ground here unless you don't keep any morphs.... And even then there is the fact that we all keep reptiles in a box.....
     
  8. cement

    cement Subscriber Subscriber APS Veteran

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    Like I've said before I dont care if its pure or not! When theres no proof either way with any animal, I can only go on my own research. If the research is inconclusive then I guess its up to me...right??
    lol! But its not the same when you know the breeder you want to buy a pure animal off ONLY BREEDS PURE ANIMALS AND DOESN'T DABBLE IN THE GENETICALLY FLAWED CRAP!!
    I'll see your pearl perthensis (good example there too), and raise you a stardust diamond lol! Just so you dont miss the point, the t+'s, woma, etc that have popped up out here are much more beleivably pure stock. But carpets are a different story and this is the thing thats coming back around to bite the people that breed both the smuggled imports and pure in their collection.

    Hey, nothing wrong with selling for a profit, thats not the point here.

    Poached Vs Smuggled...... Difference ?? reduced vigour, reduced fertility, slower growth rates Vs neuro, tail kinks etc.... Difference ???
    Really?
     
  9. onimocnhoj

    onimocnhoj Well-Known Member

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    Although some morphs can have their disadvantages. Having hidden genetics floating around in collections from albino olives and Darwins will not have the same impact that the hidden JAG genes will. The same would have to be said for Zebras.

    Poaching and smuggling are not too different on paper. Both are not legal, both raise ethical issues and both directly profit the first man on the job - in a big way. Both parties also have to justify why the animals are required in collections.

    Smugglers have to be a little more sneaky with their method of transport/assimilation to avoid trouble with the law, thus avoiding any AQIS procedure. You can bet the guys on the receiving end of the travelled goods are also in a real hurry to be the first to have the 'next best thing' for sale.

    One thing that raises hairs on my neck is the absence of quarantine from start to finish throughout the entire operation. If rainbow super zebras make their way here via illegal short cuts, how many would give them 12 months isolation to see if there were any health issues? Straight to the breeding program is where they'd go to be bred with anything and everything.

    Forget the neuro, kinked tails, etc for a minute. What about new viruses?

    It makes me seriously wonder if any microscopic travellers have hitched a ride with smuggled goods. It also makes me wonder if some of the neurological issues people mention these days are hereditary or contagious. How many would simply say, "Oh, that's just the JAG thing making it look at the stars." ??

    Ethics of captivity aside, when I look at the difference between a healthy python poached from the wild Vs one smuggled via 'X' amount of captive collections worldwide - the difference is clear.
     
  10. Ramsayi

    Ramsayi Very Well-Known Member APS Veteran

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    How did poaching come into the debate anyway,especially when albino morphs were mentioned in the same sentence? As far as I am aware both darwin and olive albs were not poached so it's a strawman argument anyway.
     
  11. onimocnhoj

    onimocnhoj Well-Known Member

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    I suppose the word 'poached' was used because they both originated from wild specimens. How they have been compared to smuggled morelia is a stretch.
     
  12. Ramsayi

    Ramsayi Very Well-Known Member APS Veteran

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    Yeah I guess those that support smuggling need to try and put some type of spin on it to try and justify their stance.
     
  13. cement

    cement Subscriber Subscriber APS Veteran

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    Haha! If the cap fits don't worry we'll all wear it. But it doesn't.:(

    Just one big problem though and that is your statement about breeding albino ..............Do you mind if I ask exactly what albino you have bred and what success you have had, and how you equate that success with giving you the authority to come across as a big time albino breeder and say they are all defected?

    Would you agree that keeping animals in the wrong conditions may be a cause for them not to breed?:lol:

    I get the feeling that you have no idea. 13 pages of good quality!!!!!! Maybe not so much for the white knights that beleive that the next best thing will come from Europe or the States though!!
    Now my sides are like yours and split with laughter!!:lol:
     
  14. jinjajoe

    jinjajoe Very Well-Known Member

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    Savaged by the APS crew.... Ha ha...

    Such an amicable crowd.
     
  15. cement

    cement Subscriber Subscriber APS Veteran

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    Lol, well you threw the first stone, by stating things not true!!

    The smuggled morphs time is over. They have run their course, and now everyone (well maybe not everyone), but a lot of people who have gotten in there now want out because it aint what they were led to beleive!!
    Come over to the dark side, buddy, get off that donkey its lost the race. We have Australian stock, we don't need imported rubbish that ends up being disapointing for the keepers, polutes the hobby, and not only makes a mockery of all of us, but divides the herp keeping community.
    The world is in awe of what we have here, the grass ain't greener over there, it is defected because thats all they have, they make do with what they have and thats that. Don't be fooled into turning away from your own countries natural beauty by envious foreigners.......or greedy fellow countrymen, posing as animal lovers. Succumb to the darkside lol!!

    I bet if you were more amicable ginger you may have more luck breeding those albino:lol:
     
  16. BARRAMUNDI

    BARRAMUNDI Well-Known Member

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    Cement,
    Your reply is exactly what my beef throughout this thread has been regarding, most comments by purists in regards to morphs have been unfounded and baseless comments with no experience at all in dealing with these morphs..........looks like the shoe is on the other foot now.........
     
  17. andynic07

    andynic07 Very Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that either side of this argument are happy with the "natural beauty" of our snakes, jag breeders , subspecies crossers and pure line breeders are all trying to breed for different patterns.
     
  18. jinjajoe

    jinjajoe Very Well-Known Member

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    To Cement......

    the Heterozygous form breed more readily in the same environment which answers your initial silly question...... Whereas the albinos more sporadically.

    this is the case in Albino Blue Tongues, Albino Tree Skinks, Albino Darwin Carpets & Albino Olives. I have tried Het x Het, Albino X Het, Albino x Wild Type & Albino x Albino pairings in all of the above...... & yes the Albinos in all of the above are in my experience are less fertile......

    More data just to pacify you is pointless....
     
  19. The_Geeza

    The_Geeza Suspended Banned

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    Im reading this thread every day.....Let's keep the Red Neck side out of it shall we and continue with what the thread is about
     
  20. TrueBlue

    TrueBlue Very Well-Known Member

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    jinjajoe,-
    Sorry buddy but you are wrong on everything that you have said involing albino olives. I have not made one cent off them for starters, as said the albino olives that i have bred were not mine but some elses that i raised and bred for them. The animals that i have are my percenage for breeding them for them. The owner of these animals made profit not me.
    You then state that they have reduced vigour, slower growth, and have defects. If you have found this when you are breeding them then you are definitely doing something wrong. Bad husbandry and or wrong incubation techniques. So this has been your falt not the genetics of the animals. I have proven this once and have just proven it again this season, with out a dought.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2013
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