Conservation: Future Directions

[Bushfire]

A discussion has taken place in another thread that I feel deserves a wider audience than the title it has would get.

I would strongly suggest before posting to go a read:

APS Thread : 'Australia thinking about exporting again' (The title doesn't give the discussion the justice it deserves) http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/...stralia-thinking-about-exporting-again-134454

and a link posted by Slickturtle http://www.audit.wa.gov.au/reports/p...ciesInsert.pdf (very interesting). It is about WA but in the real world you can put any state in there.

I might be asking for too much here but I am hoping for serious and well thought out responses and ideas here (Not that the above thread wasn't, I just thought the topic deserved a better title).

When I look around the bush these days all I see are systems and resources slowly failing and dying off. We have inherited a system of conservation that is failing us. We are not making headway to many of the threats to conservation. Our governments are slowly realising that they cant save everything thats endangered and funding for projects each year are drying it (It will probably be many more years before they openly admit it).

IMO what people need to realise is that:

a) We just don't have the money. Not only implement projects needed to get species off the endangered species list but to avoid those not on the list getting on the list. We live in a push / pull system where by to put the amount of money and effort required to make a difference in the time frame needed something else has to miss out. Its a sad reality but thats the way it is.

b) This systematic failure to protect natural resources hasn't just happened over night but is something that has slowly been building with each generation. Our environment is in a desperate state of affairs that are being bombarded by so many threats that extinction of species is inevitable as we simply can not keep up. Governments may not like to admit it but you only need to look around you to see we are losing this war despite our best intentions.

c) Once was accept the situation for what it is, you start to think...where do we go from here? How do we get the best and most effectively value for money we spend thats going to achieve measureable and achievable results for our future generations? How do we limit the extinction to the absolute minimal possible?

I believe this is the kind of talking that should be happening right now, not in 5, 10, 15 years time. What future directions should we take in terms of conservation?? It certainly isn't a put everything in captivity and let the ecosystems die kind of solution I'm talking about, although I believe it would be better to survive in captivity than to lose it forever. I for one want my grandchildren and their grandchildren to see the variety of wildlife about that I see today. But sadly I know deep down that without radically new ideas the bush they will see will be nothing like we see today just like today's bush isn't what it was 50, 100, 200 years ago.

Do we just let it happen like we are doing now or do we say hey our conservation efforts are not working we need something new? If our government cant protect our wildlife should the public and industries be given greater access to wildlife in an attempt to avoid extinction of that species? To save some things are better than nothing.

Have you wondered about this? What future direction should we take???

 

[mattmc]

regardless if you believe in 'climate change' (horse******) well no its not, the climate has been changing for the last 4.5billion years, and whether or not that will effect efforts in conservation of different species, what other ways can we as a species go about to conserve the nature that is around us? with ever increasing populations there will be less effort put into conservation (maybe, just something i see, mind you im only 17 and as im only 17 im sure some of you will dismiss my reasoning as im not old enough to have an opinion) and more efforts put into housing, roads, jobs, healthcare, which will all effect the environment and effect individual species on different scales. the corridors of greenery between such cities as sydney and gosford will decrease (agglomeration i think they call this) puting pressure on species. thats just one example.

and all the different ways that the human race will effect the environment will have their own consequences on different species etc etc.

well the point is, sooner or later, the government will need to make a choice, a choice between greater population and more taxes or.....lets have a suitable population, where water supplies can easily sustain the population and we can look after our vast arrays of ecosystems and conserve them to the best of our abilities. that is an equal mix of human welfare and environmental welfare.

mind you i agree with a sustainable catalouging system of animals and plants alike and zoos and what not. and i wouldnt mind seeing RESPONSIBLE keepers being allowed to have permits for native mammals and birds of prey

i dunno if this is relevant to what you are talking about, or if it can be read with ease, its late or early or what ever, im going to bed

 

[cris]

There is actually lots of positive stuff going on in many areas. That said i think there is plenty of room for improvement.

I think its a very complex issue, but i think nuclear power and population management are two key areas that real conservationists needs to push for. Many seem to support the idea of a sustainable population but fail to see the damage of coal power in comparison to nuclear power as a realistic short-medium term power source.

As for maintining biodiverstiy, we really just need to focus on minimising habitat destruction, while also spending more on ecology research and also promoting captive keeping even if reintroduction isnt likely. Another important issue is ensuring our wildlife has a clearly visable economic value.

 

[Slickturtle]

regardless if you believe in 'climate change' (horse******) well no its not, the climate has been changing for the last 4.5billion years, and whether or not that will effect efforts in conservation of different species, what other ways can we as a species go about to conserve the nature that is around us? with ever increasing populations there will be less effort put into conservation (maybe, just something i see, mind you im only 17 and as im only 17 im sure some of you will dismiss my reasoning as im not old enough to have an opinion) and more efforts put into housing, roads, jobs, healthcare, which will all effect the environment and effect individual species on different scales. the corridors of greenery between such cities as sydney and gosford will decrease (agglomeration i think they call this) puting pressure on species. thats just one example.

and all the different ways that the human race will effect the environment will have their own consequences on different species etc etc.

well the point is, sooner or later, the government will need to make a choice, a choice between greater population and more taxes or.....lets have a suitable population, where water supplies can easily sustain the population and we can look after our vast arrays of ecosystems and conserve them to the best of our abilities. that is an equal mix of human welfare and environmental welfare.

mind you i agree with a sustainable catalouging system of animals and plants alike and zoos and what not. and i wouldnt mind seeing RESPONSIBLE keepers being allowed to have permits for native mammals and birds of prey

i dunno if this is relevant to what you are talking about, or if it can be read with ease, its late or early or what ever, im going to bed

Hi Matt

As for your statement : - " ......just something i see, mind you im only 17 and as im only 17 im sure some of you will dismiss my reasoning as im not old enough to have an opinion......[/I]"

In some ways, at age 17, your opinions are more important than mine and people my age. I am 60 and you (and your age group) have every right to be furious with me and my age group for doing such a lousy job of caring for our country over the past 40 years or so. We are handing over to you a damaged landscape.

Your opinion is very, very important, as you are just starting out and your energy and effort over the next 30 years or so can have more good effect than anything I did. All that I can offer you (other than ears that listen) is a historical perspective that you cannot have. I know some of what the natural environment in Australia was like 10 years - 20 years - 30, even 50 years ago. So, in my mind I can track the changes. People my age should be offering this to you on a silver platter so that you can become a much more powerful future campaigner than I (we oldies) can.

People such as myself who are beginning this new push, really need to hear a lot about opinions, from people like you. Why, -- 'cause you are the future.

Cheers

Slickturtle

 

[Waterrat]

Climate has been changing since the primordial ooze and whether industrial advancement accelerated the process or not is now a trivial issue. IMO, sustainable population levels is the answer - not the only one but the major one. Unfortunately our present government sees it the other way around, however, it's a global issue and there is little anyone can do about it because we can not override religions. I will say no more on that.
Captive populations, protection of species, conservation here and there sound nice but unless we stop habitat destruction, all the efforts will make no difference. Just look at the Cassowary situation; their numbers are plummeting. They can and are being bred in captivity but where are they can to be released to? And so it goes for many other species.

 

[cris]

and there is little anyone can do about it because we can not override religions. I will say no more on that.

Have a cup of cement, education and reality are more powerful I will say no more on that

 

[colooch]

Cris nuclear power is cleaner then coal, but nuclear waste is bad news and it has to go somewhere and if not done right it could be end for not just the wildlife but everything and everyone.

 

[Waterrat]

Have a cup of cement, education and reality are more powerful I will say no more on that

What is a cup of cement gona do for me?

 

[cris]

nuclear waste is bad news and it has to go somewhere and if not done right it could be end for not just the wildlife but everything and everyone.

Rubbish, coal power isnt done right and is causing massive damage, we have plenty of ideal places to safely store nuclear waste in Australia. It can also be used for power generation in the future as better technology develops.

 

[bk201]

this kind of thread on these forums just anoy me now go do something pick some sort of conservation area and do some work/volunteering instead of just trying to sound smart:lol::lol:

 

[colooch]

where is this safe place Cris the desert? you think just putting nuclear waste in deep hole and waiting for some scientist to develop away to re-use it, there is no re-using Cris thats why other countries in the world want to use australia as a dump site, and why they call it waste! have you seen affects of nuclear radiation and what it does to people and new born babies in affected areas, well google it then tell me safe!

 

[cris]

where is this safe place Cris the desert? you think just putting nuclear waste in deep hole and waiting for some scientist to develop away to re-use it, there is no re-using Cris thats why other countries in the world want to use australia as a dump site, and why they call it waste! have you seen affects of nuclear radiation and what it does to people and new born babies in affected areas, well google it then tell me safe!

It can be safely stored in hard rock in many places in Australia if properly engineered. Nulcear waste stays hot it wont be long until it can be used to generate power.

Then again its pretty stupid think we can just keep radioactive stuff underground safely, we better get the uranium out quick and store it in sheds in other countries as nuclear waste :lol:

 

[Gekambi]

This is going to be a hottly debatted topic as there is no clear, or even blured answer to this question. Were all stumbling in the dark at the moment and will only succeed if we can put all our knowledge in one place instead of scattering it. As for endangered speices they should stop restricting who can breed them. As long as they have the ability to make a natural seeming enviroment with enough room they should be allowed to should they not? This apply's to both plants and animals.
One thing i notice is that no-one seems to bring up is that killing them, will kill us. (Hypothetical situation coming up) Say that one species dies out, and they provide something that allows a micro-organism to survive. This micro-organism might be what keeps our plants growing, or our cattle alive, it may even be the cure to a terminal illness! There are so manny speices out there we dont even know exist, it is quite imposible to predict what will happen to us as fallout.
This problem will not go away soon, it's here to stay as long as there are speices on the earth to die. The real trick is to know which ones time is up, and which one we are causing to die. If the 17 year old is woried about his veiw going across i don't know what hope there is for this. The one thing we need to know is that we need to work together to get any nearer to a solution, so put your minds to it as there is always room to change.

 

[percey39]

Rubbish, coal power isnt done right and is causing massive damage, we have plenty of ideal places to safely store nuclear waste in Australia. It can also be used for power generation in the future as better technology develops.

Up your way you are doing the most damage in australia. Your power stations burn black coal which is far worse for you, the environment and everything in between. I believe that brown coal can be used a better way, but the money involved in doing this revamp to all our power stations is incredible. Our state and federal governments simply dont have the money there to do it and by our governments selling our power industry overseas we will never see these foreign companies implement a change that costs money.
I agree that we need to control our immigrants better as we are already starting to struggle to look after the people aleady here. By doing this our government would stand to lose millions, which could possibly be used to help our environment (notice i said COULD be used)
We signed a carbon emmisions agreement that means nothing on a global scale, but means everything here. I would never want to see nuclear power come here. There are countless reasons for this ie loss of local jobs, toxic waste, possible disaterous rammifications, environment destruction and many more. We as a whole are starting to understand the destruction humanity is having on this world, but are we going to make a stand or stand in the shadows of global tyrants and resort to raping and pillaging our earth further. Its everyones choice, but with all the money to be made by people few really want to fight this attitude towards our environment!

 

[Bushfire]

this kind of thread on these forums just anoy me now go do something pick some sort of conservation area and do some work/volunteering instead of just trying to sound smart:lol::lol:

Considering I'm the thread starter here I will take your comments as directed to me. I have done and continue to do something or at least attempt too. I have for the past decade worked for several government agencies, in Western Australia it was with DEC, in Victoria with DSE and Parks Victoria, in South Australia it was with DEH, and in New South Wales to which I am currently employed with is DECCW. Everyday I am working in the field I get to see the state of affair many of our parks are in. There is only so much we can viably do. Yes there is some things that are going well on the small scale, but on the large scale the current model of conservation in Australia is failing and has been doing so for some time. Like I said before to give you a sense of the problem its like fighting last years bushfires with only one tiny garden hose.

Sooner or later the government will have to admit (like WA seems to be doing now) we can not save every species every habitat. I don't know about you but to me thats totally unacceptable but thats the reality despite how much money and labour get thrown at it. For many species the only way they will exist in the future is within captivity; a prime example for this is the Corroboree Frog.

 

[cris]

Up your way you are doing the most damage in australia.

Im doing what, where? I support clean power not coal. I didnt vote for krudd and his arroagant no nuclear even if its the best option attitude, even if it does impress the ignorant majority of working families, working families, working families :lol:

 

[mattmc]

species are born, species die. why does man have to be the saviour of those that have had there time.

man tries to hard.

but if this man can prevent the extinction of a species that has not done its time

good job man

 

[Jasspa]

this kind of thread on these forums just anoy me now go do something pick some sort of conservation area and do some work/volunteering instead of just trying to sound smart:lol::lol:

If you read Bushfire's first thread, you will understand that he is trying to say that a great deal of the 'conservation areas' as you call them, are failing - so I do not believe that he wishes to keep his mouth shut and just go and volunteer in something he believes may have faults.
A conversation like this, whether it be a thread in a forum, or a chat over a beer after work could just be the seed for some really great conservation programs.
The fact that Bushfire has dedicated the majority of his working life working for environmental and conservation based departments, in my opinion, will only add depth to this conversation. Add in another couple of people who have record of what the world was, people who are 'only 17' who will be fighting for the environment in the future... and something like this 'kind of thread' could potentially do far more for this world than if we were 'to quit whinging and go volunteer'...

(I apologise for putting my 2 cents in. I have nothing valuable to input into this topic, but I would like to defend people who want to discuss this sort of thing. I think it is important and productive)

 

[Gekambi]

Just a question. Why are you arguing for Nuclear and Coal when im sure you could all find yourselves in agreement in RENEWABLE sources of power, no waste, minimum enviromental damage (as just being alive causes damage), and it keeps going forever (providing it doesn't break and there are no clataclismic earthly events). So lets not argue the runners up, but argue the leader shall we?

 

[cris]

species are born, species die. why does man have to be the saviour of those that have had there time.

We dont, as i mentioned some of us humans are likely to be the only animals to give it thought, but i like the cool critters that live here and want most of them to be around till i rot. Then again who is to say what is right and wrong (well apart from me) ?