Dehydration - experienced keepers only, please

[Ramy]

First of all, thanks in advance for any advice.
Second of all, I've got a sick snake and I'd rather only hear from people who have dealt with a similar problem before, or similar experience. (I'd rather not get bogged down by helpful guesses).


Last year, I adopted an adult coastal carpet python who was very constipated. She spent almost a week at the vet for antibiotics, fluids, and general observation. Any blockage was removed by the vet, however she had already torn the cloaca. She got stitches, and the wound has been healing since.

It's not perfectly healed, and even 6 months after the fact I've noticed fluid dripping from the vent. She hasn't gained as much weight as I'd like, I've been cautious about large meals while she recovers. She drinks regularly, I change the water regularly (it gets messy quickly). My concern is: she seems dehydrated. Her skin is loose/soft. Should I consider giving her some sort of electrolyte replacement? If so, how?

 

[serpenttongue]

I have never found electrolytes to work. However, you can inject fluids into the dead prey and then feed her. Fluids can also be tube-fed to her, but that is stressful and unnecessary if she is feeding well. Also available from vets is Vytrate, which is used to hydrate snakes, but I have never found this to really work either. As long as she is drinking water then I wouldn't worry about dehydration.

I think perhaps she needs bulking up if she feels loose and soft. Larger, lean meals may help, such as rabbits and quail, instead of rats.

Sorry I can't help regarding her dripping cloaca.

 

[solar 17]

Personally l would water inject your food items, how much would depend on the size of your snake but myself l would feed smaller items more regularly, your weeping/leaking cloaca "could have" been caused by a couple of things, it "may have" nerve damage from where the vet stitched or it maybe just slow to recover but another clue (IMO) is constipation is a form of dehydration so this patient has probably been dehydrated for a considerable period, thus my reasoning for smaller prey/food items regularly with water injected into them prior to eating, l would "suggest" 20 mls as a good starting point...solar 17 ~B~

 

[littlemay]

I don't know if i would call myself an experienced keeper.. but i did recently have to ensure that my python's kidneys were sufficiently flushed out while on a particularly rough course of antibiotics. My vet and i discussed subcutaneous injection of both water and ringers solution, which while effective at maintaining hydration, would have added to the stress the already weakened animal. We opted for 10ml of water injected into the stomach of a frozen/thawed rat every week, which was then fed to the snake (2 years old). It appears to have been effective as my python is on the mend with no evidence of kidney damage. My situation is obviously very different to yours, but this is what worked for me.

 

[Ramsayi]

I think perhaps she needs bulking up if she feels loose and soft. Larger, lean meals may help, such as rabbits and quail, instead of rats

This^^

 

[cement]

Might also be worth having the vet check a crap sample for worms too, and also do you have any idea of age? Old, old age can be like this. The wound should be healed after 6 mths, so it's worth going back to the vet on that.
Don't let her body temp get below 27-30 deg while she is healing.

 

[Ramy]

Thanks everyone,

I suspect dehydration was the initial cause of constipation. I have very little to go on, though. The vet suggested it might have been too little heat while digesting. I don't have an accurate history. Either way, she was dehydrated for a while when she was blocked up.

I'm currently feeding her smaller meals weekly (All my other pythons eat fortnightly). For a while, I was injecting rats with paraffin oil, after getting advice from my vet. I was concerned about repeat constipation, and after a few adult rats had gone in, I was ready to see something coming out. While I agree that larger, leaner meals are better for putting on weight I'd rather be cautious.

I've observed her drinking maybe once a week, and she can drink 500mL or more at a time. (She's a 4Kg python, 2.3m, 8-10 years old). I'm not as concerned about her water intake as I am about losing electrolytes. It's like when you have diahorrea, you have to replace salts as well as water. The dripping cloaca means she's losing fluids, I don't know if she's getting as much salt as she's losing. If you were me, would you inject some gastrolyte/vytrate/ringers solution?

I'll keep a close eye on her and try to fatten her up. (I admit I've been sticking closer to my maintenance-for-adults diet instead of my fatten-up-growing-yearlings diet).

- - - Updated - - -
[MENTION=4778]cement[/MENTION], the vet has consistently been happy with how well her wound has recovered. I mentioned it to him again later, and he suggested that the tearing was bad enough that she might not fully heal.

Her basking point gets up to 33 degrees during the day, however it's turned down at night. Should I turn the night time temps back up?

 

[cement]

Personally, I would give the parrafin oil the flick, no disrespect to your vet, but I wouldn't put a petro chemical derived product in an organic animal. Mutton bird or fish derived oil would be better.
the snake will get all its nutrients from its food, so feeding with well fed healthy rats or rabbits will be enough.
Half a litre + of water in one drink? Without knowing the whole problem the dripping cloaca might be lymph weeping from an internal injury or a urinary tract infection or incontinence. Guesses only, check back with the vet.

Ok sorry mate, just read your extra bit. Yes I keep all sick and injured at 27-30 degrees.

 

[longqi]

We use powerade baths to get good results
Full of the rights bits and pieces it seems
We see almost full recovery from bad dehydration within 24hrs

 

[Ramy]

I've taken her off the oil now anyway. If she stops pooping again, I'll look into alternatives.

I can up her night time temperature again.

I'll talk to the vet and see what he thinks.

[MENTION=20112]longqi[/MENTION] - powerade baths, huh? Full strength or dilute? How long do you keep them in there?

 

[Ramsayi]

I've observed her drinking maybe once a week, and she can drink 500mL or more at a time. (She's a 4Kg python, 2.3m, 8-10 years old).

That volume has to be a typo.Make sure you supply fresh water everyday as they wont drink stale water.I know you wrote you are not concerned about her drinking enough but it can't hurt.I still think the loose/soft skin is more a symptom of being underweight rather than dehydrated.The fluid around the cloaca is likely to be from something else going on.When it does defecate how would you describe the end result?

 

[Ramy]

Ok, in retrospect it's less than that. She has a 2L water bowl, and she can take a fair serving out of it. With a distorted view of the bowl, it looked like a quater of the bowl but you're probably right it would be less than that. She'll sit with her head near the bowl for an hour just drinking in sips, which I've never seen my other snakes do. TBH, I feel like she drinks more than my other pythons.

The fluid is very watery, often brown or white. Gives me the impression of water dripping out coloured by whatever else.

Defecation is the same as my other pythons - lumps, visible fur, some water passed with it, approx one rat at a time, a little bit of urate with every one. Not sure how much water - I've got her on kitty litter because it keeps the smell down. While she was healing it seemed mucousy, but it hasn't been lately.

Urates are crumblier than I'd expect, gives the impression of crystals in it?

 

[longqi]

[QUOTE

@longqi - powerade baths, huh? Full strength or dilute? How long do you keep them in there?[/QUOTE]

about 30% powerade heated to viv temp in a tub
put snake in tub and put the lid on
if dehydration is really bad ie tenting skin etc 30 minutes

spoon full of prune juice works just as well on snakes as it does on mammals for constipation

 

[-Peter]

If there is leaking of fluid from the cloaca then there is damage to the sphincter muscles and this needs to be looked at again by the vet. Even if there was fluid loss there it would not overly contribute to dehydration as it is waste already. A state of dehydration would preclude excess fluids being expelled by the body.
Most food people offer their snakes is waterlogged anyway so extra fluid isn't necessary unless there is an underlying organ problem.

 

[Elapidae1]

I dealt with a snake with these exact problems for nearly a year and a half and then the snake was cared for by another person for a year, the problem/problems were never resolved and unfortunately the snake died last week.

Initially the animal prolapsed yet retracted the prolapse without help, eventually he prolapsed and didn't retract and also impaction was noticed. The same as yours the cloaca was cut, impacted material removed, then stitched, animal wormed as a precautionary measure, antibiotics and fluids were injected to heal and aid hydration. eventually I moved off fluid injections and injected food items with water, the snake was lean due to small feeds as it continued to become impacted though prolapse was never as severe.
The dripping/leaking from the cloaca was so severe at times he fouled the entire enclosure I put this leaking down to straining yet not being able to pass the solids. To treat the impaction I used vegetable oil tubed into the cloaca and very gentle massage the impacted stool was often putrid and I suspect the eventual cause of death due to infection or poisoning. I also moved off rodents to day old chickens as these produce softer stools and seemed to retain more fluids.

The underlying problem was never understood and treatment tedious by the time I had passed it on to someone else I had decided to euthanise.

 

[EmmaPowell]

Would the Gatorade baths work for a yearling? I have recently treated my bredlis with mites and stupidly assumed the instructions where appropriate for all aged reptiles as the can didn't state otherwise and one is extremely unwell, possible toxicity? I am unsure but I have removed it from
the enclosure and I am forcing fluids and giving baths.

 

[Ramy]

I dealt with a snake with these exact problems for nearly a year and a half and then the snake was cared for by another person for a year, the problem/problems were never resolved and unfortunately the snake died last week.

Sounds like my girl isn't as bad as yours, fortunately. I haven't had any further blockages since the original instance of constipation. It's reassuring to know that mine isn't the only snake to have this problem in recovery - I'm of the understanding that scar tissue doesn't make for a reliable sphincter. Sounds like all I can do is treat symptoms as they arise.

 

[-Peter]

If you really need to hydrate quickly use a dose needle and a syringe. A crop needle will also work. You can inject subcutaneously but research shows it is absorbed just as quickly orally.

 

[Ramy]

Gatorade baths sound easier for newbies - I think I could dose a python with a syringe if I had to, but it would cause a lot of stress for both me and my pet. Injecting defrosted rats is easier. If you're not sure, [MENTION=39949]EmmaPowell[/MENTION], maybe send longqi a PM for advice? Or head to a vet.

 

[Darlyn]

Something to be aware of is if the snake has been treated with parrafin then it is possible that
there has been to much treatment for constipation. Where the food goes through to fast and and the snake doesn't get any nutritional benefit. I'm not saying this is what has occurred but it could be a possibility and could explain the lack of weight gain.