First snake, he hasn’t pooped the whole time we’ve had him :(

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DittiMaru

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Hey guys :) I got a teeny tiny bebe of a snake, he’s a marbled Children’s python and we were told he’s 9 months old when we got him. We’ve had him nearly 3 weeks, he has been fed twice (pinkies as per the reptile shops instruction) but he doesn’t seem to be pooping, maybe that’s normal but I don’t know 😅 he has shed since we got him, had no issues, no stuck shed that we can see.

he’s in a small hatchling enclosure that’s housed in the big enclosure at the moment because he’s too small to go in the large enclosure coz he can fit his head between the glass doors. we have a thermostat and two thermometers at the hot and cold end (though the enclosure is really small so there isn’t much of a gradient) and he spends a good part of his time in his hide that’s right on top of the heat mat.

should we be concerned that he hasn’t had a poo?

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Pythonguy1

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Although I wouldn't be too concerned if it's only been three weeks, it could be that he may not be getting enough heat. What is the temperature of his warm spot under his hide?
If he's spending all his time on his warm side then it could mean that it's not warm enough for him.
Snakes need heat to digest their food properly as digestive enzymes work at a particular temperature. If it isn't warm enough for the snake, then the digestive enzymes will function slower resulting in it taking longer to poo. Therefore if the temperature is lower than it will take longer for the snake to digest it's meal.
 

DittiMaru

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Although I wouldn't be too concerned if it's only been three weeks, it could be that he may not be getting enough heat. What is the temperature of his warm spot under his hide?
If he's spending all his time on his warm side then it could mean that it's not warm enough for him.
Snakes need heat to digest their food properly as digestive enzymes work at a particular temperature. If it isn't warm enough for the snake, then the digestive enzymes will function slower resulting in it taking longer to poo. Therefore if the temperature is lower than it will take longer for the snake to digest it's meal.
thank you for the quick reply, the temperature under his hide reads between 30-32 throughout the day, we dont have it set to a colder temp for night time because the guys we got him from said not to at least while he's still really young. should it be higher than 32?
 

DittiMaru

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Could we see his enclosure setup?
Here ya go :)

Hot end on left hide, cold end has the log which he seems to like scurrying through in the evenings. I feel like I didn’t make it clear enough, he spends a lot of time in his warm hide but does come out, it’s just been quite cold here in Melbourne so I don’t blame him for not wanting to go outside of the warm spot.

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also bonus of him out and about the other day FF1D5156-986C-42C5-A124-32BDCCBE62AD.jpeg
 

Pythonguy1

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thank you for the quick reply, the temperature under his hide reads between 30-32 throughout the day, we dont have it set to a colder temp for night time because the guys we got him from said not to at least while he's still really young. should it be higher than 32?
I would probably let it range from about 31-33 for a young snake, just to be sure that he's getting all the heat he needs. If it is to hot for him he will move off his warm spot however at this stage it sounds like his temps could go a bit higher.
 

DittiMaru

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I would probably let it range from about 31-33 for a young snake, just to be sure that he's getting all the heat he needs. If it is to hot for him he will move off his warm spot however at this stage it sounds like his temps could go a bit higher.
Sweet. Will up the temp and hopefully that helps. Will update if the bugger poops haha. The shop also said pinkies for at least 20 feeds, does that sound about right? I thought we feed based on the width of the snake
 

Pythonguy1

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Feeding based on the width of the snake would probably be better as different snakes grow at different rates. I feed my snakes rats/mice that are 1.5-2 the width of the snake. As a general rule. If you can no longer see a bulge in the middle of the snakes body from the rat, then he needs to go up a food size ;)
 

DittiMaru

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Feeding based on the width of the snake would probably be better as different snakes grow at different rates. I feed my snakes rats/mice that are 1.5-2 the width of the snake. As a general rule. If you can no longer see a bulge in the middle of the snakes body from the rat, then he needs to go up a food size ;)
ooh that's a good way to visually check, thank you. the pinkies we got are so small, even though Casper is only...40cm in length he seems to not have any noticeable chub to him after he eats, will try feeding him a bigger pinkie tonight!
 

Allan

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I'm assuming the heat is on at night time as well?
Pinkies should be digested in under a week and as a general rule, 30 degrees is more than sufficient.
Too much heat can sometimes be the culprit as well, Especially with heat mats, where the poo can literally be "cooked" and difficult for the snake to pass. You can carefully run your finger underneath from the middle to the vent and any obstruction can easily be felt.
If he/she is constipated, a lukewarm bath 2-3 cm deep in a container, the swimming motion usually produces a result (poo)
 

DittiMaru

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I'm assuming the heat is on at night time as well?
Pinkies should be digested in under a week and as a general rule, 30 degrees is more than sufficient.
Too much heat can sometimes be the culprit as well, Especially with heat mats, where the poo can literally be "cooked" and difficult for the snake to pass. You can carefully run your finger underneath from the middle to the vent and any obstruction can easily be felt.
If he/she is constipated, a lukewarm bath 2-3 cm deep in a container, the swimming motion usually produces a result (poo)
Yes the heat is on at night time too, should I make the thermostat set to a lower temp at night? We’ve put quite a bit of substrate between the bottom of the enclosure and Casper because I was worried about cooking him (or his poos for that matter now that I know that’s something that can happen)
We tried the bath, he does not seem to be a fan of the water, he tightly coils onto my hand and doesn’t get into the water, do you have a ball park temperature I can aim for with the water?
 

Timmah

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I have the same hatching enclosure with a heat mat at one end. Hot end gets to 33ish, cool drops to 24ish. I've just got astroturf at the bottom and I get a poop a week pretty much. I wonder of the thickness of your substrate is causing a lack of gradient? Not sure of that would effect pooping though!
 

Allan

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30-35 degrees. No, he probably won't like getting in the water so you have to put him there and put on a lid.
Did you check if he is constipated?

Looking at the substrate, have you checked properly as there isn't much left of a pinkie after it has been digested and you might have missed it?
Btw, definitely time to increase the size of food.
 

DittiMaru

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I have the same hatching enclosure with a heat mat at one end. Hot end gets to 33ish, cool drops to 24ish. I've just got astroturf at the bottom and I get a poop a week pretty much. I wonder of the thickness of your substrate is causing a lack of gradient? Not sure of that would effect pooping though!
Thermometer at the cold end reads between 25-26! And now I’ve got the hot end at 33-34. He was chilling in the section in between the two so I think it’s kinda working? I just moved the heat mat a bit closer to the edge of the enclosure so it covers less of the floor space.

30-35 degrees. No, he probably won't like getting in the water so you have to put him there and put on a lid.
Did you check if he is constipated?
How do I check if he’s constipated?

Looking at the substrate, have you checked properly as there isn't much left of a pinkie after it has been digested and you might have missed it?
Btw, definitely time to increase the size of food.
so while my partner was handling him today, I did a good sift through of his substrate and sure enough there was a tiny poo in the substrate and a poo near the water bowl. They’re both tiny and it didn’t even register as not substrate. Will feeding him two pinkies in the meantime achieve the same effect of bigger food? I have…14 left and don’t know what to do with them if I don’t feed them to him 😅
 

Jonesy1103

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Hi
I have a Childrens as well. If yours can handle 2 pinkies in a single feed, that's fine at this young age. You will probably find 2 poops (1 per pinkie) after each feed.

If your snake is still looking for food after the first pinkie, give it the second. It will grow. After a coupla months, consider if it can handle 1 fuzzie. You will know, the head will be a lot bigger. I am sure you can run 14 pinkies, 2 at a time, into this snake. That should be 50 to 70 days worth of feeds.

When you run out, send us a photo. I am sure by then your specimen will have a much broader head.

Once it is ready for fuzzies, get on them. They are much more nutritious.

Cheers
Jonesy1103

Gonna edit this; when I said "should" be 50 to 70 days, what I meant was "given your current feeding regime of 7 to 10 days your food supply of 14 fuzzies is gonna last about 7 weeks to 70 days". I don't tell people how often to feed their snakes. Your snake will tell ya
1) when it aint hungry
2) when it's looking for food
3) when it is desparate to eat
And you will learn or know these things by its behaviour, which is affected by temps, sheds, exercise etc

Cheers
 

CarlosTheSnake

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Couldn't be bothered to read all the other messages there but... you have the same enclosure that I use for my stimmie. I cover mine with a towel or something so that it is relatively dark. Also if the red light is a heat lamp, you dont need that. the heat mat should be enough. Also give him something to climb on like a stick, I know mine loves to climb and get tangled in anything he can find lol. good luck!
 

DittiMaru

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Hi
I have a Childrens as well. If yours can handle 2 pinkies in a single feed, that's fine at this young age. You will probably find 2 poops (1 per pinkie) after each feed.

If your snake is still looking for food after the first pinkie, give it the second. It will grow. After a coupla months, consider if it can handle 1 fuzzie. You will know, the head will be a lot bigger. I am sure you can run 14 pinkies, 2 at a time, into this snake. That should be 50 to 70 days worth of feeds.

When you run out, send us a photo. I am sure by then your specimen will have a much broader head.

Once it is ready for fuzzies, get on them. They are much more nutritious.

Cheers
Jonesy1103

Gonna edit this; when I said "should" be 50 to 70 days, what I meant was "given your current feeding regime of 7 to 10 days your food supply of 14 fuzzies is gonna last about 7 weeks to 70 days". I don't tell people how often to feed their snakes. Your snake will tell ya
1) when it aint hungry
2) when it's looking for food
3) when it is desparate to eat
And you will learn or know these things by its behaviour, which is affected by temps, sheds, exercise etc

Cheers
Amazing. Thank you so much, this is really helpful information, I appreciate it heaps. Will keep y’all updated :)
 

DittiMaru

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Hi
I have a Childrens as well. If yours can handle 2 pinkies in a single feed, that's fine at this young age. You will probably find 2 poops (1 per pinkie) after each feed.

If your snake is still looking for food after the first pinkie, give it the second. It will grow. After a coupla months, consider if it can handle 1 fuzzie. You will know, the head will be a lot bigger. I am sure you can run 14 pinkies, 2 at a time, into this snake. That should be 50 to 70 days worth of feeds.

When you run out, send us a photo. I am sure by then your specimen will have a much broader head.

Once it is ready for fuzzies, get on them. They are much more nutritious.

Cheers
Jonesy1103

Gonna edit this; when I said "should" be 50 to 70 days, what I meant was "given your current feeding regime of 7 to 10 days your food supply of 14 fuzzies is gonna last about 7 weeks to 70 days". I don't tell people how often to feed their snakes. Your snake will tell ya
1) when it aint hungry
2) when it's looking for food
3) when it is desparate to eat
And you will learn or know these things by its behaviour, which is affected by temps, sheds, exercise etc

Cheers
Hey so we tried feeding two pinkies and he straight up refused the second one, he struck at it eventually then he just left it and is now in his hide, i want to remove the pinkie but i also dont want to bother him, any advice on how to feed two in one feeding?
 

Bluetongue1

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You can leave it overnight and see if he takes it. You can feed two together by daisy -chaining them. BTW, what does your snake weigh? I started on the following yesterday, but got interrupted. Hopefully I have now removed any duplication…
That is a great looking little critter you have got there.

Pinkies contain very little roughage (indigestible matter) as their claws, and teeth are not fully developed, their bones are not large or dense, and they have no hair. Your snake is likely utilising close to 100% of what it eats, which is why it is producing only a small amount of faeces. A good shed indicates it is well hydrated.
*
There are a couple things about digestion that are worth knowing. As was mentioned, like humans, snakes need to add water as a major component of their digestive juices. Anyone who has suffered a bad dose of the runs will appreciate just how much water is actually present in the intestines. By the time it reaches the large intestine, usable food has been digested and absorbed. The water in the mix is largely reabsorbed by the large intestine. If a snake is dehydrated, putting minimal water in with digestive juices to begin with, or the passage of wastes is slowed down for some reason, the faecal matter can be dried out excessively. This results in constipation, or worse, compacted faeces. Snakes don’t have the same set of intestinal muscles for moving material through the gut as we do. They rely on whole body movement and gliding over objects to do this. Unfortunately there are myths and misinformation about how things can happen. For example, the idea that too much heat can bake the wastes inside a snake’s gut. The amount of heat required to do that would well and truly kill the living cells of the snake first. However, internal waste matter can become dry if a snake is dehydrated and kept in a dry environment without access to water.

Given the glass sides of the enclosure and the wire mesh top, placing a towel over that half or so will probably help considerably in retaining heat. It would be wise to monitor the temperatures when and if you do that.

In my experience, head size is more important with determining size of food items for lizards. Snakes have such flexible jaw linkages that they can swallow something more than twice the size of their head. For that reason we tend to put more emphasis on body size than head size… a) 1 - 1½ times the thickest part (middle) of the body; b) 15 - 20% of its body weight; c) sufficient to leave a noticeable but not excessive bump once it is fully ingested. Mind you, it would probably make no difference in this case.
 

DittiMaru

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You can leave it overnight and see if he takes it. You can feed two together by daisy -chaining them. BTW, what does your snake weigh? I started on the following yesterday, but got interrupted. Hopefully I have now removed any duplication…
That is a great looking little critter you have got there.

Pinkies contain very little roughage (indigestible matter) as their claws, and teeth are not fully developed, their bones are not large or dense, and they have no hair. Your snake is likely utilising close to 100% of what it eats, which is why it is producing only a small amount of faeces. A good shed indicates it is well hydrated.
*
There are a couple things about digestion that are worth knowing. As was mentioned, like humans, snakes need to add water as a major component of their digestive juices. Anyone who has suffered a bad dose of the runs will appreciate just how much water is actually present in the intestines. By the time it reaches the large intestine, usable food has been digested and absorbed. The water in the mix is largely reabsorbed by the large intestine. If a snake is dehydrated, putting minimal water in with digestive juices to begin with, or the passage of wastes is slowed down for some reason, the faecal matter can be dried out excessively. This results in constipation, or worse, compacted faeces. Snakes don’t have the same set of intestinal muscles for moving material through the gut as we do. They rely on whole body movement and gliding over objects to do this. Unfortunately there are myths and misinformation about how things can happen. For example, the idea that too much heat can bake the wastes inside a snake’s gut. The amount of heat required to do that would well and truly kill the living cells of the snake first. However, internal waste matter can become dry if a snake is dehydrated and kept in a dry environment without access to water.

Given the glass sides of the enclosure and the wire mesh top, placing a towel over that half or so will probably help considerably in retaining heat. It would be wise to monitor the temperatures when and if you do that.

In my experience, head size is more important with determining size of food items for lizards. Snakes have such flexible jaw linkages that they can swallow something more than twice the size of their head. For that reason we tend to put more emphasis on body size than head size… a) 1 - 1½ times the thickest part (middle) of the body; b) 15 - 20% of its body weight; c) sufficient to leave a noticeable but not excessive bump once it is fully ingested. Mind you, it would probably make no difference in this case.
This was such a good read with so much information, thank you for taking the time to type this all out, I really appreciate it. He’s such a rad looking snake, I love him.

We thought the enclosure might not have been adequately heated when we put him in a taller enclosure and he managed to crawl up in the gap in the lid close to where the heating bulbs were, but we thought he’d escaped and the stress and panic that caused made us move him back to the smaller one (at least till he’s big enough not to crawl in the bloody gap in the lid). Good to know we can’t cook his poo in him though.

we have a pretty large container of water kept in the larger enclosure that seems to help with the humidity in there. How often do babies go through shed? He was starting to rub up against the log hide in his enclosure today just like he did before he went into shed last time so just curious. His last shed was so perfect, all in one piece minus his little face mask

12C92940-7578-4C37-8315-9C06B9F750F9.jpeg

The shop had let us know that he was a real struggle to get feeding when he started out but the two weeks leading up to us getting him he’d been eating a pinky every 5-6 days so I’m wondering if he’s only going to take one mouse at a time, should we feed him more often?
Will weigh him in a couple days when he’s done with the pinkie that’s in him. maybe he’ll have eaten the second one too who knows. What does Daisy chaining pinkies mean? 😓
 

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