Help-Hybrid Sands vs Lace

[LuckDragon]

Hi everyone, I’m in the States and I’ve been researching sand monitors and Lace. I’ve read and have been told a lot of contradicting info. Many here have recommended Lace(of course they are breeders of Lace, saying they’re less bitey and extremely smart and after some time will tame down with work). I’ve also heard the opposite, they bite and when they do it’s very bad, as anything with a mouth can bite. So I came across sand monitors and here in the states pure sands are near impossible to find. So I’ve found a few Flavi, Panatopes, Gouldii crossed. Tribred or duals, Flavi panatopes. I saw an Argus(panatopes) once and was in total amazement, just a beautiful animal, beefy animal. I heard the crosses can be more apt to handling vs a straight panatopes and come in smaller packages. Gouldii is impossible to find pure, Flavi you can get close to pure. The price difference is pretty big too, lace are $3500-$10000 and sands are $650-$2000 depending on variations etc. I love the feeding response of lace and sands and was told that can come in handy when taming down and training. I have the space and time to work with them and currently have an Asian water monitor that’s younger, and is awesome, but slightly boring lol. What would you go with for having an animal that can tame down/tolerate handling?

I found a few awesome sand breeders here, so they have the Flavi panatopes Gouldii cross and as for lace I have a few options.
Any and all help more than appreciated!

 

[Friller2009]

The Argus monitor (Varanus panoptes horni) is a subspecies of Varanus panoptes found in southern New Guinea. It is common in the US, but is not found in the Australian hobby, with the Yellow spotted monitor Varanus panoptes panoptes being found.
The argus monitor grows smaller than Yellow spotted monitor, with adult females being substantially smaller than males

The sand monitor ( Varanus gouldi gouldi and Varanus gouldi flavis) is a smaller species of reptile than Lace Monitors, reaching about 1.5 metres (5 foot) in total length. They like it hot and require some sand to dig. They are less likely to cause serious harm to you but caution should be taken around them.

The lace monitor is the second largest lizard in Australia and can be quite tame (have a look at @dragonlover1 ’s laceys) but can also be complete psychos. A bite or attack from a lace monitor would be extremely damaging. They will also require cage height as well as length.

 

[LuckDragon]

The Argus monitor (Varanus panoptes horni) is a subspecies of Varanus panoptes found in southern New Guinea. It is common in the US, but is not found in the Australian hobby, with the Yellow spotted monitor Varanus panoptes panoptes being found.
The argus monitor grows smaller than Yellow spotted monitor, with adult females being substantially smaller than males

The sand monitor ( Varanus gouldi gouldi and Varanus gouldi flavis) is a smaller species of reptile than Lace Monitors, reaching about 1.5 metres (5 foot) in total length. They like it hot and require some sand to dig. They are less likely to cause serious harm to you but caution should be taken around them.

The lace monitor is the second largest lizard in Australia and can be quite tame (have a look at @dragonlover1 ’s laceys) but can also be complete psychos. A bite or attack from a lace monitor would be extremely damaging. They will also require cage height as well as length.

Thank you very much! This is definitely helpful. I’m leaning toward getting sand (might be a hybrid Flavi, yellow spot, Gouldii) or a Flavi Gouldii 50/50. Both breeders are saying for either about 1m 32-36”. The yellow spot, Panoptes panatopes are stunning monitors. Taming down for those seems from what keepers say, is hard. I have seen a few that 1 out 20 that are actually good with handling.

 

[dragonlover1]

I can't comment on the other species of monitors, but as with all reptiles and indeed all animals there are some individuals who are quite calm and some who are absolute nut cases . As Friller said I have a pair of Lacies who are quite calm, the female climbs all over me, but I have also had a Jungle Python who would bite the **** out of me every time I opened his door. So each individual needs to be assessed case by case , there is no gaurentee 1 species will be better than another

 

[LuckDragon]

Thanks!!! Completely makes sense. I have a small farm/zoo at my home, horses, cats, dogs, pythons, parrots and believe that statement 100%! I’m always trying to best educate myself on others experiences and even “stereotypes” to at least try an eliminate variables, knowing full well I can get the exception to the rule and get a psycho or fall outside that stereotyping and be pleasantly surprised. What I do know is I love Lace, Sands/Spencer’s, and seems like it’ll be boiling down to what my wallet can spend, the care and my own personal likes. I’ve had a lot of people recommend Lace and many who have had great experiences with Lace, less with panoptes Panoptes, and 50/50 with Spencer’s, even though the majority said Spencer’s are great, because they don’t offer a bite. I’ll look at all the variables; care, housing, size, bite levels(how much damage they can truly inflict in a worse car scenario) and cost to give the animal and myself the best outcome. Thank you!

 

[user 43767]

Thanks!!! Completely makes sense. I have a small farm/zoo at my home, horses, cats, dogs, pythons, parrots and believe that statement 100%! I’m always trying to best educate myself on others experiences and even “stereotypes” to at least try an eliminate variables, knowing full well I can get the exception to the rule and get a psycho or fall outside that stereotyping and be pleasantly surprised. What I do know is I love Lace, Sands/Spencer’s, and seems like it’ll be boiling down to what my wallet can spend, the care and my own personal likes. I’ve had a lot of people recommend Lace and many who have had great experiences with Lace, less with panoptes Panoptes, and 50/50 with Spencer’s, even though the majority said Spencer’s are great, because they don’t offer a bite. I’ll look at all the variables; care, housing, size, bite levels(how much damage they can truly inflict in a worse car scenario) and cost to give the animal and myself the best outcome. Thank you!

Hi, if you find Asian water monitors boring you`re doing something badly wrong, can you define "boring"? 1st 3 pics are my 253cm male @ almost 13 years old, 2nd set my 240cm (also male) housed separately) then pics of them both as hatchlings...from hatchlings.

 

[LuckDragon]

Hi, if you find Asian water monitors boring you`re doing something badly wrong, can you define "boring"? 1st 3 pics are my 253cm male @ almost 13 years old, 2nd set my 240cm (also male) housed separately) then pics of them both as hatchlings...View attachment 332918View attachment 332919from hatchlings.View attachment 332912View attachment 332913View attachment 332914View attachment 332915View attachment 332916

Well I should’ve picked a better choice of words. I personally prefer the more intense food drive I’ve witnessed with Lace and Sands and I say that for the personal interaction level of bonding with feeding. Asian water monitors are great, just not as good motivated and active. Spectacular set up! My apologies if I offended any Asian water monitor keepers.

 

[user 43767]

Well I should’ve picked a better choice of words. I personally prefer the more intense food drive I’ve witnessed with Lace and Sands and I say that for the personal interaction level of bonding with feeding. Asian water monitors are great, just not as good motivated and active. Spectacular set up! My apologies if I offended any Asian water monitor keepers.

There should be very little difference in activity (including food response) between the species so far mentioned if they are properly supported. Can I ask how long and how many Asian water monitors you`ve actually kept, and can you show a couple of photos of them and their enclosures?

 

[LuckDragon]

There should be very little difference in activity (including food response) between the species so far mentioned if they are properly supported. Can I ask how long and how many Asian water monitors you`ve actually kept, and can you show a couple of photos of them and their enclosures

I have one, six month old, at this time. Captive bred, F1. So not as removed from others in the trade, due to its rarity in captive bred locality. I have temps, bask and humidity where it needs to be. He/she is active, but prefers to be when I’m not around or if I’m sitting doing work(not staring at the enclosure) will also be bustling around. I’ve talked with numerous US breeders, and all is fine, and all have said Argus, Flavi, Gouldii and Lace have a higher food response, almost to a negative if you’re not careful compared to AWM and can be used in training. Mink Man who kept an Argus also stated that helped with training and why he went Argus. More than anything came on here to see what keepers of Lace & Sands had to say, aside from what you see in Social Media.