Juvie Diamond Python behaviour

[LilithLeChat]

Shedding question:
I’ve seen a lot of advice about what to do if snake doesn’t shed properly, namely, to soak it in warm water for an hour.
I assume “warm” would be comfortable temperature for humans? Around 37 degrees?
How do you force the snake to soak without stressing it?

 

[Bl69aze]

warm for us is hot for them is what ive been told, what i do is get a round bin with a clip on lid, put some water in, then put the snake in there and let it soak.

Shedding question:
I’ve seen a lot of advice about what to do if snake doesn’t shed properly, namely, to soak it in warm water for an hour.
I assume “warm” would be comfortable temperature for humans? Around 37 degrees?
How do you force the snake to soak without stressing it?

 

[Stompsy]

Shedding question:
I’ve seen a lot of advice about what to do if snake doesn’t shed properly, namely, to soak it in warm water for an hour.
I assume “warm” would be comfortable temperature for humans? Around 37 degrees?
How do you force the snake to soak without stressing it?

If your snake has not completely shed then I’d recommend wetting a face washer with warm water and letting the snake run through it in your hands. The shed should come off without an issue and it will alleviate a lot of the stress that will come from dumping him in a bucket of water. If you aren’t confident in doing this, you can also supply the snake with a wet hide within the enclosure and he should be able to remove the shed himself.

Depending on how much shed is retained, it may just be worth leaving him be until the next shed and maybe place another water bowl closer to the light source to up the humidity slightly.

 

[LilithLeChat]

Thank you
My snake hasn’t shed since I got it 5 weeks ago, but I want to be prepared in case it doesn’t shed properly.

 

[Bl69aze]

Another method is to put a wet cloth at the bottom of a pillow case and put the snake in the pillow case

 

[Stompsy]

Thank you
My snake hasn’t shed since I got it 5 weeks ago, but I want to be prepared in case it doesn’t shed properly.

Don’t stress. It will probably shed just fine. I’ve only ever had to assist shed twice and I’ve been keeping for over 6 years. Just let your snake do his thing!

 

[AnthonyL]

Just want to say, as a lurker of this thread, there is some really interesting and helpful information here! Definitely going to ensure my hides are more snug next cleaning day. (Thanks @Bluetongue1 - as a newer keeper, I was only looking at hides from the perspective of giving my snakes a place to go to get away from me - you raise interesting points about a place where they can maintain as much body temp as possible when they retire at night - thanks for this. Going to review and downsize a few of my hides next clean, esp bc its so cold in Vic atm)

@GBWhite - Such great info re: metabolic systems and impacts of frequent feeding. Thank you! As a python rookie, one can get so 'excited' seeing pythons feed (given that they don't do much else, esp GTP's) that they over do it. Also many first time keepers are used to having / keeping other pets/animals, so may have an incorrect mindset re: feeding frequency, because of their experience with other species. My snakes all aren't eating. Was worried week one. But instead of repeatedly offering rats / mice, I have been reading much on the forum from the likes of yourself, @Pauls_Pythons @Stompsy @Scutellatus both here in this thread and in much older threads and have decided I am not going to get worried til after winter, if at all. It seems the general consensus is, a drop in feeding in the long run is better health wise or has no health effects at all, opposed to overfeeding - so will wait for signals of snake looking for food, however long that may take and then offer. Going to feed my snakes with a life long approach in mind, not isolate each feed or rejected feed and try over compensate just to bring on other health issues down the track. Will let them do their thing and I’ll take their cue.

George, or anyone, what are some health problems that may be raised due to over feeding? I know this may sound stupid, but are captive carpets known for a higher rates of tumours in intestinal tract, opposed to wild ones? If yes, is this related to captive over feeding?

Also (Sorry to derail thread) last night I was watching a netflix doco on the feral burmese pythons in the Everglades, the doc said that they are opportunistic feeders and will take out native birds and animals even if not hungry because they don't know when their next meal will be. Is this typical behaviour of Australian snakes too? Everything else I am reading here on the forum says that snakes only eat in the wild when hungry, so therefore don't over feed them in captivity. Not being contrary, just really interested in learning. And don’t understand the discrepancy in opinion. Sorry in advance if its a dumb question. Are the Pythons we are keeping here in Aus opportunistic feeders?

(Also, aware not everything on TV is correct, the same doc also said pythons dislocate their jaws...)
[doublepost=1529397822,1529396867][/doublepost]edit: My exotic specialist vet said that tumors are very common in carpets, I wasn't sure and forgot to ask if this was the case in all carpets including wild or captive only due to over feeding, genetic weakness within breed line and or husbandry issues?

 

[Pauls_Pythons]

George, or anyone, what are some health problems that may be raised due to overfeeds? I know this may sound stupid, but are captive carpets known for a higher rates of tumours in intestinal tract, opposed to wild ones? If yes, is this related to captive over feeding?

Good question and not one I can fully answer. Look forward to seeing other input on this. What I can say is excessive fat in any animal is not dissimilar to the problems suffered in humans. Fat cells collect around vital organs reducing effective operation. Fatty liver disease is well documented in snakes and while many people associate this to BHP's it can affect most captive snakes as far as Im aware.

Everything else I am reading here on the forum says that snakes only eat in the wild when hungry, so therefore don't over feed them in captivity. Not being contrary, just really interested in learning. Sorry in advance if its a dumb question. Are the Pythons we are keeping here in Aus opportunistic feeders?

Snakes in general are opportunistic feeders and this comment/question is very relative to the thread as Diamonds are a good example of this in their behaviours. Feed a diamond today and tomorrow it will likely still be in ambush mode waiting to see if something might just come by.

 

[Bluetongue1]

How is power feeding detrimental to a snake's health? How does it reduce their lifespan? Are there any studies that demonstrate this? I thought fatty liver disease is the result of over feeding an adult, as a young growing snake would be utilizing the extra energy towards attaining adult size, and not storing it as fat as an adult would. I'm not intending to be controversial, I'm genuinely curious. Power feeding and breeding snakes as a form of income is relatively new, such as in the last decade or so, isn't it? Would there be enough time and data to support these claims if snakes can potentially live to 20-30 years?

Power feedinghas been around for decades but I am only aware of one research study into its effects. They fed Spotted Pythons (A. maculosa) every 5 to 7 days (cannnot remember exactly) and allowed to eat as much as they wanted. They averaged one third of their body weight per feed. At the end of three years they concluded that the growth rate has been significantly accelerated and there no signs of health issues. The real problem here is that you need a study that continues for the life of the animal.

The only long-term information that is available that I know of is anecdotal. For example, the prior owner/operator of APS (Slater) stated that he power fed a selection of his pythons that he wanted to breed but not the rest. Those snakes he power fed were all dead by 10 years of age while those he had not power fed lasted almost twice as long. Their reproductive years are also apparently shortened.

It makes sense. As George explained, it is basically keep snakes in continuous high level digestive mode. That means a continuous abnormally elevated metabolism. The theory of ageing in cells (senescence) says the more they work and the more they have to repair and replace themselves, the sooner they will become dysfunctional due to the probability of errors in DNA/RNA replication) = cellular ‘burn out’.

 

[Neil j]

Does my hatchling look fat. Last two meals she switched to hopper rats. I was feeding every three to four days during summer.

 

[Pauls_Pythons]

To me Neil, and this is just my opinion. Yes it does.
Is it critical at this stage, I would say not but feeding every few days builds a huge fat reserve. My young BHP's are just moving onto hoppers every 2 weeks.

 

[Bluetongue1]

Sounds like you have been saving questions. It would be better to start a separate thread next time. Following are my understandings in answer to your questions. And thank you for you kind words.

…George, or anyone, what are some health problems that may be raised due to overfeeds? I know this may sound stupid, but are captive carpets known for a higher rates of tumours in intestinal tract, opposed to wild ones? If yes, is this related to captive over feeding?...

My vet said tumors are very common in carpets, I wasn't sure and forgot to ask if this was the case in all carpets including wild or captive only due to over feeding, genetic weakness within breed line and or husbandry issues?

All vertebrates have fat around their ‘solid’ vital organs, such as the kidneys and heart. This acts as a shock absorber so these organs are not injured when moving. The liver, the body’s largest organ, contains a significant number of fat cells, as it is used for storing fat soluble vitamins and produces numerous fat-related chemicals. In healthy animals however, the total amount of fat present is minimal for the functions required of it.

Birds and mammals produce their own body heat have a substantial layer of fat directly under the skin as insulation to help keep that heat in. Reptiles on the other hand absorb their body heat from the external environment, such as the sun’s rays and warm rocks. To allow this heat to get in, they don’t have that layer of fat in their skin. Reptiles are essentially very lean animals, naturally carry very little fat in their bodies.

Reptiles are geared to not waste food resources that come their way. They will readily store what extra food they don’t need as fat. Pythons can develop excess fat in their bodies in two main ways. One is by being fed appropriate food, but in excess of their needs for growth and metabolism. This occur to most as they get longer and their rate of increase in length drops off. So the excess food produces an increase in girth. The other way it can happen is being fed on food that contains an excessive fat. The excess fat is storede but may not show as a significant increase in girth.

Excess fats in the body can have various negative effects on health. In humans it tends to be the heart and blood vessels that are mist affected (cardio-vascular disease). In pythons it tends to be the liver which is most affected, resulting in fatty liver disease. It can also affect kidney function in both.

It has been found that several pythons that have a leaner diet of reptiles, rather than all mammals/birds have a lower tolerance of dietary fats and are significantly more prone to fatty liver disease. Following are the percentage of reptiles in the natural diet of those species (Rick Shine’s data): Black-headed 92%; Green Tree 56%; Woma 48%.
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Vets can only really generalise on captive specimens, as they seldom work on wild specimens, if at all. So we just don’t know whether their observations are representative of the wild population or not. There is no point in speculating.

 

[AnthonyL]

Thanks for your reply @Bluetongue1


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Interesting article I just read related to over feeding, obesity, correct feed calculations for age/size.

www.currumbinvetservices.com.au/basic-reptile-husbandry/

 

[Bl69aze]

Thanks for your reply @Bluetongue1


———


Interesting article I just read related to over feeding, obesity, correct feed calculations for age/size.

www.currumbinvetservices.com.au/basic-reptile-husbandry/

Very interesting indeed !

2 years of no feed! Now that’s one way to save $$ (jk)

 

[Pauls_Pythons]

Still on the subject of over feeding I just came across. Interesting read for those that think weekly feeds and 350g rats are the go .......................................

http://www.currumbinvetservices.com.au/basic-reptile-husbandry/

 

[Bl69aze]

Still on the subject of over feeding I just came across. Interesting read for those that think weekly feeds and 350g rats are the go .......................................

http://www.currumbinvetservices.com.au/basic-reptile-husbandry/

Assuming you’re talking about me, I don’t feed 350g rats weekly, nor do i feed rabbits weekly.

And power feeders/frequent feeders do not either, atleast any sane ones

They may feed 2x 70g rats a week which digest a hell of a lot faster and therefore speed up the growing process rather than one big bulky meal.

They also have a slightly “larger” hot box if you will which again helps digest faster. I am currently in touch with a large exbreeder on the Gold Coast who bred (still does but cut 90% of his collection) things from carpets to vens, and they say the age difference and breeding results is nothing too different from people who wait 4 years to breed

 

[Pauls_Pythons]

Assuming you’re talking about me, I don’t feed 350g rats weekly, nor do i feed rabbits weekly.

You assumed incorrectly.
I put this here as there is a following on the thread looking for advice and guidance.
I honestly don't give a t0ss what you feed your animals. Im only here to help those who are looking for it.

 

[Bl69aze]

You assumed incorrectly.
I put this here as there is a following on the thread looking for advice and guidance.
I honestly don't give a t0ss what you feed your animals. Im only here to help those who are looking for it.

I thought it was some smart ass comment seeing as you posted the same link as the dude I replied to before your post, my apologies

 

[LilithLeChat]

Couple more questions: if it is better to feed a snake two small meals instead of one large one per week/fortnight/month, does it mean give both at the same time, or one at the start of the feeding period, and one in the middle?

Second question: what are materials/chemicals that should never ever be in the snake’s enclosure or in contact with the snake due to toxicity or being an irritant to skin/mucous membranes?

I assume I should never spray on perfume and then go near my snake, as it would probably be overwhelming and/or irritating, considering how powerful its sense of smell is. And if for example I put some perfume on my wrist and the snake gets in contact with it few hours later, would the chemicals irritate its skin? I always wash my hands before handling her, but could the residue be harmful?

The reason why I’m asking is because I saw some nice ornaments on eBay, but they’re cheap and come from China, so I’m not sure whether they might be made from materials potentially harmful to the snake.

Ps. I chased up her hatch date with the shop, she was born on 15th January this year.

 

[AnthonyL]

I have my training wheels on myself, but can say sticky tape is a NO GO anywhere in the enclosure, and wire mesh is frowned on as reptiles can rub against it and graze themselves, it'll literally cut them up. Also some live plants can be toxic to certain snakes - so always research first if you are intending to add real plants. Don't use sand as a substrate for snakes and never use heat rocks - not even for lizards. Don't just trust thermostats, also have a IR thermometer and a manual type, especially for beginners like us until we are confident with equipment and heat levels. When a newer keeper we tend to buy equipment and learn down the track that what are the good brands and what are the poor ones. I've already bought several pieces of crap because I thought all equipment was of same standard. Not the case, hence why I won't just rely on my thermostat. (Not to mention needing to repurchase similar equipment of a higher grade) Do research before buying equipment to ensure its safe for reptiles and safe for your house (potential fire hazards, etc) Will leave the rest to the experts here though...