Keeping RBBS - venom question

[Delicateskink]

Hi,
I am thinking about getting a Red-Bellied black snake.
I have worked with them (and all other venomous snakes) before,
but I have not owned one myself.

I am really hands on with my reptiles, and I don't want a display snake.
My only question regarding keeping one, is about their venom toxicity.
I have no doubt that I will encounter at least one bite from the snake, as I have with my pythons (usually for a week when they are hatchlings or my mistake when feeding).

I know that their toxicity isn't as potent or life threatening as others, but would it be necessary for me to get anti-venom with every bite?

Are the babies equally as venomous as adults?

 

[Snowman]

It's never surviving the bites these days, it's the on going health issues associated with venomous snake bites. RBB snake venom is known to destroy muscle tissue.

"The venom of red-bellied black snakes isn’t as toxic as most Australian dangerous snakes but bites from this species can cause fatalities. The venom has a weak neurotoxic and coagulant effect. The myotoxic affect is significant. Like most of the Pseudechis genus, the venom is a considerable complement activator."
Black Snakes

 

[slither]

keeping elapids is only something that should be done by people with a lot of experience id suggest getting far more experience before you begin to think about keeping elapids you will not be handling them like you do pythons.

 

[JrFear]

Didn't Neville lose a finger to one!

 

[Snake Catcher Victoria]

Hi,
I am thinking about getting a Red-Bellied black snake.
I have worked with them (and all other venomous snakes) before,
but I have not owned one myself.

I am really hands on with my reptiles, and I don't want a display snake.
My only question regarding keeping one, is about their venom toxicity.
I have no doubt that I will encounter at least one bite from the snake, as I have with my pythons (usually for a week when they are hatchlings or my mistake when feeding).

I know that their toxicity isn't as potent or life threatening as others, but would it be necessary for me to get anti-venom with every bite?

Are the babies equally as venomous as adults?

How many times do you plan to get bitten?

Yes the young rbb venom is as potent as the adult..

If you get envenomated by one you will be in for a lot of pain. Ive heard the rbb bite is the most painful of all Aussie snakebites

 

[tonesanlainie]

I have no doubt that I will encounter at least one bite from the snake, as I have with my pythons (usually for a week when they are hatchlings or my mistake when feeding).

I have two points here. 1. One bite is 1 too many. 2. Probably a good idea to not keep Taipans!

 

[Snowman]

I find it hard to believe that you have worked with vens and still ask a question like this?

 

[Snowman]

I have no doubt that I will encounter at least one bite from the snake, as I have with my pythons (usually for a week when they are hatchlings or my mistake when feeding).

Pretty quick growing hatchlings. Mine take much longer than a week and are snappy for ages.

 

[scorps]

If you have no doubt youll get bitten then your not ready for a red belly, I know it sounds blunt but Id rather hurt your feelings a little then read about you getting bitten by one.

Unless your really experienced and know the animal really well, vens arnt very hands on animals and are more suited to display.

 

[cement]

If your husbandry is good, like JW says in his old book, there is no excuse to get bitten.
Husbandry is very different to pythons. As for the effects of the venom it will depend on many factors. The bigger the snake the more quantity, will it be a loaded bite or not, and the biggest unknown.... how will your system cope with it?
Yeah a finger was lost, but that was due to later complications, but he wouldn't have lost it if he hadn't been bitten...
you've worked with heaps? what sort of work?

 

[Venomous_RBB]

+1 to everyone above.
As much as RBB's, Roughie's and Tiger's are my favourite Elapids, actually snakes.... I would never own one, I respect them alot and have a good understanding of the RBB bite (My Grandad got bitten, his own stupid fault), anyway I seriously think if you want to keep a hands on animal, stick with Pythons.

Venomous snakes, need/demand respect.
I am not trying to be mean or rude, I just think they should be wild or only be kept by complete experienced Herp keepers. I know you say, you have had experience and good on you for trying to find out some questions before? you purchase one. But I too would be interested to know your experience.
Cheers.

 

[RedFox]

I would love to own ven eventually but for different reasons than my pythons. If you want to handle your snakes, stick to pythons. Vens are beautiful and interesting to keep but those that do free handle generally have many years experience with vens and a great understanding of the animal they are handling.

 

[junglepython2]

I am really hands on with my reptiles, and I don't want a display snake.

Unless that changes, vens aren't for you.

 

[Snowman]

I would love to own ven eventually but for different reasons than my pythons. If you want to handle your snakes, stick to pythons. Vens are beautiful and interesting to keep but those that do free handle generally have many years experience with vens and a great understanding of the animal they are handling.

She is experienced. She got her first coastal carpet python all the way back in 2011.

 

[$NaKe PiMp]

LRBB is a great snake to keep , and great to handle too, if you like you should get one. That's all there is to it really.
ibe written a 30,000 word husbandry guide on the species you may want to read

 

[Delicateskink]

Forgive my ignorance on venom, it hasn't been my main focus when studying Herpetology.


I volunteered at the Canberra reptile centre for nearly every day for nearly 3 years (Jan2006-late 2008 ); feeding all of the snakes and cleaning their enclosures (with the exception of the coastal Taipan and Mulga on display, who would fly the door the minute the lock turned), as well as doing demonstrations to the public.


It was there that I gained the most constant hands-on/Hooks-on experience with venomous snakes.
(A Common Death adder, a Mulga, A Coastal Taipan, an Eastern Brown, 2 Chappell island Tiger snakes, 2 Common Tiger snakes, a Colette snake, a Red bellied black snake and 2 inland Taipans), and it was there that I fell in love with RBBS.
Ross had hand raised his from a hatchling, she was quite tame outside of her enclosure and was handled frequently without qualm. - Which is why I even considered them as being suitable for an experienced keepers, "pet".


Whilst working at the centre, I took my new skills to the field, and started catching and releasing wild snakes. (Mainly browns and Tigers in Canberra).
Which came in handy, as I have been a resident snake catcher in town for the past 2.5yrs, and it keeps me happily busy throughout the year. (Mainly Brown snakes and Pythons here).


Yes, I bought my first python in 2011.
I did not have the money to purchase or keep a python until then.
For a couple of years, I was backpacking between temporary jobs around outback Queensland, and I figured my Blue tongues were happy and hardy enough to endure life as it came, (Which was always comfortable and safe for them), but I knew couldn't keep a python until I had a stable address.


I treat all reptiles (and animals for that matter) with the same respect.
I don't get them out unless they seem keen to come out, and they are put back at the first muscle twitch of feeling uncomfortable or wanting to return to their enclosure.

Overall I have had 18 years experience keeping reptiles, 7 years experience with Venomous snakes and a lifetime passion for Herpetology (currently 25yrs).

I don't entirely "expect" to be bitten, but it is always something I keep in mind when handling ANY reptile, and having no extensive knowledge on venom, I just wanted to know if I was (for lack of a better word) any "Safer" with a RBBS, than the other venomous snakes, in the event of a possible bite.

 

[imported_Varanus]

You've likely had more experience than many in this thread giving you "advice". As Rob (SP) has mentioned, they are a great beginner elapid and tolerant of keeper errors, but mostly, just a brilliant snake! Ross has a lovely RBB and has been a great mentor to many.

 

[NATHAN93]

If you think your are ready then do it, If your'e doubtful on you capabilities just wait.
all the best mate

 

[cement]

This might be a start, and help with what you are asking.

"Red-bellied black snake bite may be undertreated
Red-bellied black snakes were thought to just cause non-specific systemic effects, mild rhabdomyolysis and local effects which could be managed without antivenom.5 The Australian Snakebite Project found that 95% of patients developed systemic symptoms and there was a previously unrecognised, but clinically significant, myotoxicity. This resulted in longer hospital stays and admission to intensive care units. Myotoxicity did not occur in any patient who received early (within six hours) tiger snake antivenom but occurred in 20% of those who had late or no antivenom.10 (The use of tiger snake, rather than black snake, antivenom for red-bellied black snake is a long-standing practice which is supported by neutralisation studies but not, as yet, clinical trials.) The implication of this research is that antivenom should perhaps be used more often (and early) in red-bellied black snake envenomation.
In addition, an anticoagulant coagulopathy occurred in the majority (61%) of envenomed patients (although no patients developed life-threatening haemorrhage). An abnormal activated partial thromboplastin time could therefore be used as an early indicator of those patients with systemic envenoming. One vial of tiger snake antivenom should be considered for these patients.10
There is a note of caution to be sounded as hypersensitivity reactions occurred in over one-third of all antivenom administrations. This problem is common with tiger snake (as well as death adder and polyvalent) antivenom.11 An ongoing trial (ACTRN1261100058899) is examining the clinical harm–benefit of using antivenom to treat envenomation by the red-bellied black snake."

taken from The Australian Provider, Vol 35 Antivenom Updates