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daniel648392

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122363923_369361940851747_307304326312741601_n.jpg Hey guys,
I've picked up this 2 year old diamond today and he seems undersized? previous owner had told me he was eating one fuzzy a fortnight. To sum it up he hasn't been taken care of very well, the temperature in the enclosure hasn't been regulated properly. I have little experience with snakes although he seems fine whilst out of enclosure during handling. Hopefully you can see the attached photo
 
Poor thing. Bet it's always hungry. I imagine it should be eating a rat every seven days or so by that age....

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Yeh I think he's been stressed as she was saying she sometimes would have to just leave the fuzzy in the enclosure cause he wouldn't take it immediately. Need to get this guy healthy again. I'm wanting to upgrade enclosure to something a lot bigger (around a metre in height) could that stress the snake out more tho?
[doublepost=1603624441,1603624344][/doublepost]Also what should my next steps be with feeding. She last fed him a fuzzy on Thursday so should I try another this coming Thursday or maybe sooner?
 
Are you sure he is 2 yr old? Personally I wouldn't be too concerned about the size of the snake, be more concerned by its condition.
Just looking at this picture alone, its difficult to tell but if you softly pinch along the side of the snake, is there loose skin? Can you feel ribs?
If he is underweight you would feel loose skin and or ribs, he would also be very lethargic, and slow.

Offer him a rat approx 1.5x the thickest part of his body every 7 - 10 days and continue increasing the size with his growth.
If he won't take it, either wiggle it around more to tease and entice him to take it, or offer him 2 smaller meals until he grows more confident, if the temp environment was off he may have been having trouble digesting or the food was too cold, either of which would explain the lack of interest,

Don't be concerned about the size of the enclosure, pythons prefer smaller spaces to big open spaces as open spaces can leave them feeling vulnerable to predators.


Just provide him with plenty of hides on both the hot and cold side and fresh water along with some climbing material and you'll be right.

If you just got him, leave him alone in his enclosure for at least a week to settle before disturbing him again, this way he can get comfortable with his new environment.

Diamonds are super easy to take care of, just make sure the temps are on point as overheating can be a real issue for them.

Try not to get overwhelmed and get yourself stressed out over little things, im pretty sure we all have made some mistakes along the way, if in doubt ask questions and learn you will learn as you go.
Good luck bro.
 
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thanks mate i really appreciate the info and will definitely be taking it on board

You are so welcome brother..

Once you get all set up correctly, there is very little you can do wrong so don't worry, you will be a great dad. Just sit back and enjoy getting to know your little guys personality.
 
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I have a few points to make about what you have stated. These are intended to help you correct any existing misconceptions and certainly not to give you a hard time.
You state: “Need to get this guy healthy again.” On what basis are you making the judgment that it is unhealthy? Is it based on you can observe in front of you, or is it based on your perception that the previous owner “didn’t take care of it very well” and therefore you presume it must be unhealthy?
You state: “…the temperature in the enclosure hasn't been regulated properly.” Do you know what the recommended temperatures for Diamonds pythons are? They are not just the same as other Morelia species.
You stated: “Yeh I think he's been stressed as she was saying she sometimes would have to just leave the fuzzy in the enclosure cause he wouldn't take it immediately.” This is not necessarily any indication that the snake is stressed. If it were really stressed, it would likely not eat at all and would be very reluctant to be handled.

From your comments about how it handles and what I can see in the photo, your snake seems in good health to me. It has glossy scales, is active but calm, alert and responsive. I will warrant there is plenty of tongue flicking going on when you do take it out.

Let's address you concerns about it being undersized. You will not find a table of age vs appropriate length (or weight) for any species of snake. This sort of data only exists for adult specimens. There is a very good reason for that. In the hatchling /juvenile phase, snakes basically utilise as much of their food as possible for growth. The basic strategy is to attain a size where they are no longer on the menu of every other carnivore in their environment. At this stage there is a direct relationship between feeding rate and growth rate. In captivity they normally get regular meals at frequent intervals. This seldom happens in the wild. So in the wild size vs age can vary hugely. As long as they get enough food to sustain their body without having to regress to a dangerous degree, they will not be stunted, and if they live long enough will eventually reach full adult size.

As Wolfgang5 says: “Personally I wouldn't be too concerned about the size of the snake, be more concerned by its condition.” Body condition is the best indicator of whether it is getting enough food to sustain itself. It looks fine to me but follow W5’s instructions anyway. I do have a detailed guide to assessing body condition in my notes plus some additional relevant info if you are interested. In the meantime, take the advice offered and relax and enjoy.
 
Thank you! I Appreciate the info. One other question, is it okay to use long dead eucalyptus branches in the enclosure? Given the removal of ants, sharp points etc? I've heard mixed opinions
 
IMG_20201025_161813_1.jpg IMG_20201025_163653.jpg
IMG_20201025_161813_1.jpg IMG_20201025_163653.jpg
Hi Daniel
A couple of photos of my diamond python which is about 20 months old.I have had him for 3 months now.Similar situation to you,snakes enclosure had no heat source and was underweight but healthy.A week after introducing day time heat I offered him a fuzzy rat and he took it with no problems and has continued to do so every 2 weeks or so.Weaner rats are now on the menu from the last 2 feeds.Have noticed a nice weight gain and the loose skin is gone.He has shed twice in this time,the first was just after I got him and was in pieces.The second shed was a few days ago and in one piece.....Hope this bit of info helps.Keep reading the forums they have helped me alot....cheers.
 
hey shaun, he's beautiful! what is your setup for heat? is it ok to use infrared globes set on a thermostat overnight? Im in melbourne so it does get quite cold
 
hey shaun, he's beautiful! what is your setup for heat? is it ok to use infrared globes set on a thermostat overnight? Im in melbourne so it does get quite cold

I'm in Melbourne too and I don't use heat at night, my enclosures are on timers and switch off at 6pm.

As mentioned earlier by Bluetongue, Diamonds are quite different from other Carpets and can handle much cooler temps, around 28-30° on the hot side and under 24° on the cool side, I set my thermostat for an ambient temp around 25-26° which seems to be working for me as our boy is around 20mths, 1.7m, and had never had less than a perfect shed.
He is currently eating decent medium-large rats with no issue digesting.

Think of it this way, many people will have opinions on heat sources, some swear by over head heat, others by heat mats, but realistically as long as he is able to access heat for a few hours a day, he will be ok, watch him yourself for a few days and see his patterns, you will soon learn how much heat he wants/needs and when.
 
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Thanks Wolfgang, what does your ambient tempt get down to in the tank overnight roughly?
 
Thanks Wolfgang, what does your ambient tempt get down to in the tank overnight roughly?

It really depends on the weather, I have seen it in single figures but over winter the temps usually sit around low teens, and over summer somewhere around low 20's, to be honest I don't really look any more.

When I got my first python, I would get up all hours of day and night just to check the temp, but now I just set the thermostats and walk away.

I found it quite intimidating at the beginning as I couldn't find much detailed information, one person says this, one says that, no one teaches you how to size their food, or set temps with any detail, its a learning experience, and even though I don't have the experience some people here have, feel free to ask anything mate, im happy to help.

Screenshot_20201102-002422_Gallery.jpg
 
Yeh I've felt overwhelmed with the conflicting information. It's been stressful. I've moved his old enclosure into my new enclosure for him to take his time entering in. The hot and cool spots seem to be within temperature judging from each thermometer and the thermostat is set at 25 degrees and it's in the middle of the tank. I had to give him a betadine bath yesterday as he's got a mild case of scale rot from what I think was his past enclosure with the previous owner being too humid as it was small and the temp wasnt regulated. Hopefully it'll clear up in his next shed.
 
Yeh I've felt overwhelmed with the conflicting information. It's been stressful. I've moved his old enclosure into my new enclosure for him to take his time entering in. The hot and cool spots seem to be within temperature judging from each thermometer and the thermostat is set at 25 degrees and it's in the middle of the tank. I had to give him a betadine bath yesterday as he's got a mild case of scale rot from what I think was his past enclosure with the previous owner being too humid as it was small and the temp wasnt regulated. Hopefully it'll clear up in his next shed.

From my experience, If you feel the hot/cool temps are within range and the (thermostat) temp is around 25, then you'll be right.
Don't bother overthinking things, i spent far too long stressing over everything only to find I was worrying about nothing.
As long as you don't have the temps at the extremes for extended periods, and he is eating and digesting, he will be ok.
His shedding will give you a great insight into his health, a full shed, good, brittle, broken, poor.
Pretty easy.


As for the scales..... I'm sorry, that would be a question for a more experienced keeper.
 
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hey shaun, he's beautiful! what is your setup for heat? is it ok to use infrared globes set on a thermostat overnight? Im in melbourne so it does get quite cold


Hi Daniel
I have no heat on at night.I have got a 25 watt heat cable between 2 sheets of aluminium with the slate tiles on this.thermostat set at 26 - 28 degrees from 6am to 6pm...Also have an infrared bulb up the top I leave on 4 to 10 hours depending on the ambient temp ,this gets the sandstone shelf temp around 32 to 38 at the moment...I also like to get him out in the sun for 10 to 15 minutes 2 or 3 times a week to get some uv.

It will not be long before I turn off all heat on enclosure as it gets hotter.

I am also still learning myself and dont have a lot of experience...Agree with wolfgangs comments,.....First enclosure set up for me...Moved snake in about 3 weeks ago and he seems to like it......cheers.
 
@shaun9628, I very much like the furnishings and arrangement in your set-up. These pythons do like to bask but will also happily derive heat from body contact with a warm surface. The thermometer placed in the middle of the heat gradient is a super sensible thing to do. It seems evident that the snake is using the climbing branches provided and that is really good to see.

@daniel casullo, there is a lot of conflicting information out there for a number of reasons. Firstly, there is more than one way to ‘skin a cat’ and it is possible to achieve the desired results doing things differently. Then there are those that simply reiterate what someone else has told them, without trying it. There are also those who have had a snake for a few months, and because it is still alive spruik about what they have done it, even though the long term effects have not yet been seen. Then there are commercial sellers who adopt whatever care advice seems simplest to increase their cash turnover. No doubt there are other reasons.

So how and where do you find good information? The first thing I would be doing is joining the local state library. Then I’d look for the most recent publications of care of the species I have or intend to acquire. Information in a hardcover book is much more likely to be reliable. Anyone can jump on the net and write whatever with no checks or balances on it. Whereas a hardcover book has to be good enough to recoup the costs of publishing it and is put through an editorial process. I know it is much easier to jump on the net, but being discerning in your research is a skill unto itself.

Hopefully you have discovered that diamond pythons require cooler conditions than other Morelia species. This is likely related to the fact that they are the most southerly distributed python on the planet. There are plenty of accounts of difficulty in maintaining and breeding diamonds kept indoors, especially when they were first being kept. Yet snakes housed in outside aviary-style enclosure have demonstrated longevity and regular breeding. In fact, when not given access to cooler temperatures, they tend to have a considerably shortened life span, and many show signs of what is called Diamond Python Syndrome. So what is required indoors to avoid this?

The following information is based on written and verbal information from successful keepers. Firstly, diamonds should always have access to temperatures in the low twenty’s or less (i.e. below 25). Secondly, they should be provided with a significantly shorter daily basking period compared to other Morelia. Four to six hours, provided in the morning to early afternoon, is more than adequate. As long as they have access to suitable hides /refuges where they can coil up and conserve body heat, no heating is normally required at night. Where the ambient temperature inside the enclosure consistently drop to single figures, a mild supplementary heat source might be appropriate. The preferred body temperature (PBT) for diamond pythons is most commonly quoted as 29oC or close to it. Given this, a basking site temperature of about 32 – 34oC is appropriate. I hope this helps to clarify the temperature issues.
 
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