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Mack86

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Here you go

Im having a bit of trouble letting go of my Aspen and the current decor. I may have also added a few extra air holes🫣 but not too many overall ??- fingers crossed. Hopefully it will still hold heat better than the glass even with the extra holes.

I would assume humidity would still be slightly better in here than the heavily ventilated glass enclosure.

Let me know if I've messed it up but really hoping this is still okay.

Also note, it's not normally this bright for him. It's normally quite dark, I just turned the lights on for the picture.
PXL_20221004_085856103.MP.jpg PXL_20221004_085849182.MP.jpg

I stuffed it didn't I by adding too many holes and holes on the top. I got happy with the drill and was worried it wasn't enough air.
I'm so failing at this
 
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Mack86

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don't fret, too many holes wont matter. You are not heating the air, your heat mat is heating the floor
Cool,

After trolling through lots of posts on here I've decided to attach my probe outside of the tub between mat and plastic, instead of inside enclosure under hide. Because of this I've had to up the settings on my thermostat but I'm now getting more consistent temperature in hide (staying at 32/33 instead of fluctuations between 30 and 34)

I feel horrible for disturbing the little guy, but I need to get this better for him.

Happy with it now. Until someone tells me it's not right 😅

Sorry for clogging up this forum with these posts. Hopefully this will be the end of it.
 
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dragonlover1

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Cool,

After trolling through lots of posts on here I've decided to attach my probe outside of the tub between mat and plastic, instead of inside enclosure under hide. Because of this I've had to up the settings on my thermostat but I'm now getting more consistent temperature in hide (staying at 32/33 instead of fluctuations between 30 and 34)

I feel horrible for disturbing the little guy, but I need to get this better for him.

Happy with it now. Until someone tells me it's not right 😅

Sorry for clogging up this forum with these posts. Hopefully this will be the end of it.
putting probe outside will not give you a true indication of inside heat. Probe should always be at basking spot and fluctuations are fine as long as they don't get too extreme
 

Mack86

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Thank you for responding again dragon, please know that I appreciate your advice.

I have a thermometer inside his hide which is constantly reading between 32 and 33 degrees. I am struggling to understand how that isn't a true indication of the temperature. My temp gun measures the same?

Honestly, I give up now , this is all too hard.
 

Bluetongue1

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The following comments are rather late but I have not been able to write and post them until now.

It has been stated on this forum by various people that Antaresia species are known for going off their food during the cooler months, despite their heating regime not being changed. Stimmies are commonly kept in WA and I am familiar with a number of keepers in or near Perth. A rough rule of thumb from their reports is that if their snakes stop eating, it is usually in April and they don’t start again until the latter half of October.

As an ex-teacher, I can categorically state that making someone feel stupid (or “an idiot” as it was put) is totally counter-productive to helping them learn. Some individuals seem to have forgotten we all start off at the same marker – totally ignorant, irrespective of intellect. Reptile keeping in general is very much a practical hobby and so experience is the best teacher, irrespective of intellect. Respondents should also bear in mind that if people asking questions had access to experienced keepers, they would not need to be on this forum. So new keepers don’t need to be told what they have done wrong - they need to be told how to make the best out of where they are at. That includes taking into consideration their capacity to return or exchange goods.

I have noted that what often tends to elicit a very negative response or criticism, is mentioning any involvement with a pet shop. The automatic assumption is often that the pet shop has sold unnecessary them items, or the wrong or inappropriate equipment, and any advice given is incorrect. Equipment and advice received by such people should be evaluated independently of where it came from. Your offer to help should start from there.
 

Mack86

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"Respondents should also bear in mind that if people asking questions had access to experienced keepers, they would not need to be on this forum."

This is exactly why I am here, I do not know anybody who has owned or does own a snake. Unfortunately though, I won't be using the forum to ask questions from this point. I'll just use search to find my answers.

Thanks for sharing your points @Bluetongue1 , I agree wholeheartedly.
 

Bluetongue1

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There is actually a couple of pages of the thread that I missed when I posted my last comments. My apologies – it is due to the side-effects of my current medical treatments which make it difficult to focus mentally at times.. This reminded me of the following...

One important comment I omitted in my last post is that it is not uncommon for new individuals joining a thread to only only read what is posted on the current page. This can result in them raising/advising on issues that have already been addressed. The best way I have found to deal with such posts is to say something like: “I appreciate your input, but I think you may find this has already been dealt with”.

@Mack86, your ability to cut to the chase, with clarity of your objectives, and persistence, will help not only @Meesh, but all other newbies requiring similar information that you have elicited in t thread. This something I believe that is worth considering, before you banish yourself to the search tool only.

PS. Great job on the click clack you ended up producing.
 
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Mack86

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There is actually a couple of pages of the thread that I missed when I posted my last comments. My apologies – it is due to the side-effects of my current medical treatments which make it difficult to focus mentally at times.. This reminded me of the following...

One important comment I omitted in my last post is that it is not uncommon for new individuals joining a thread to only only read what is posted on the current page. This can result in them raising/advising on issues that have already been addressed. The best way I have found to deal with such posts is to say something like: “I appreciate your input, but I think you may find this has already been dealt with”.

@Mack86, your ability to cut to the chase, with clarity of your objectives, and persistence, will help not only @Meesh, but all other newbies requiring similar information that you have elicited in t thread. This something I believe that is worth considering, before you banish yourself to the search tool only.

PS. Great job on the click clack you ended up producing.
Thank you @Bluetongue1 , I was awaiting feedback on the click clack that was suggested I create and then told to post a photo of, but it never came unfortunately. Glad you feel it worked out alright 😊

Also you don't need to apologise for missing some pages, hope things medically are okay for you. I know things can take a fair while to adjust back to normality sometimes.
 
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Bluetongue1

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Before addressing a few points made during the course of this thread, I’d like to tackle the original issue. Bear in mind this will be my opinion based on my interpretation of the information you have provided, and opinions can be wrong. In fairness, I must also acknowledge that coming in at a late stage, where you have answered many questions, provides a broader overview that earlier respondents did not have available to them.

It has been established that some pythons stop eating through the colder months, even when provided with the same degree of heating throughout the year. It is my belief that these snakes are aware of the seasonal changes taking place outside. My hypothesis is that they can distinguish natural daylight from artificially provided illumination and this allows them to track the seasons. I suspect it is most probably an awareness of changing daylength. Alternatively, it may be the subtle changes in the composition of natural light as it’s angle of incidence through the atmosphere alters with the seasons. Whichever, It certainly isn’t “pre-programmed” expectation, as snakes moved from the southern hemisphere to the northern hemisphere, and vice versa, alter their yearly behaviour patterns accordingly.

You stated that you snake was in its cool-side hide whenever you checked, and was maybe moving to the warm side at night. My interpretation of this is that the snake is doing its best to brumate and probably does not go to the warm side at all. It wants to minimize metabolism to conserve its body’s energy reserves, as it would be doing in the wild. Under those circumstances, it will not become active again until it feels that it is the appropriate time of year – as Sdaji explained, there is sufficient heat available on an on-going basis to allow it to fully digest a meal. You will know when this happens because the snake will start moving about, searching for food and utilizing the warm hide. All you should need to do is make a quick visual check in the early evenings, every few days. From what I gather using a torch should be sufficient to determine this without disturbing your little critter if it is not out and about.
 

Mack86

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Before addressing a few points made during the course of this thread, I’d like to tackle the original issue. Bear in mind this will be my opinion based on my interpretation of the information you have provided, and opinions can be wrong. In fairness, I must also acknowledge that coming in at a late stage, where you have answered many questions, provides a broader overview that earlier respondents did not have available to them.

It has been established that some pythons stop eating through the colder months, even when provided with the same degree of heating throughout the year. It is my belief that these snakes are aware of the seasonal changes taking place outside. My hypothesis is that they can distinguish natural daylight from artificially provided illumination and this allows them to track the seasons. I suspect it is most probably an awareness of changing daylength. Alternatively, it may be the subtle changes in the composition of natural light as it’s angle of incidence through the atmosphere alters with the seasons. Whichever, It certainly isn’t “pre-programmed” expectation, as snakes moved from the southern hemisphere to the northern hemisphere, and vice versa, alter their yearly behaviour patterns accordingly.

You stated that you snake was in its cool-side hide whenever you checked, and was maybe moving to the warm side at night. My interpretation of this is that the snake is doing its best to brumate and probably does not go to the warm side at all. It wants to minimize metabolism to conserve its body’s energy reserves, as it would be doing in the wild. Under those circumstances, it will not become active again until it feels that it is the appropriate time of year – as Sdaji explained, there is sufficient heat available on an on-going basis to allow it to fully digest a meal. You will know when this happens because the snake will start moving about, searching for food and utilizing the warm hide. All you should need to do is make a quick visual check in the early evenings, every few days. From what I gather using a torch should be sufficient to determine this without disturbing your little critter if it is not out and about.
This is very helpful and is inline with what others have said. I really appreciate you explaining all this in depth and in a way that a newbie is able to understand.


Please share any more knowledge you may have, I am digesting all of it!
 
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Bluetongue1

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In Post #16 you stated: “I understand cardboard won't do much if anything in terms of holding any heat in.” This is not necessarily the case. Paper products are made primarily from wood fibres and wood is a good insulator. Corrugated cardboard, used in packing boxes, consists of two layers of card with fluted paper in between. The paper flutes hold the card sheets together and trap columns of air at the same time. Air is a very poor conductor of heat i.e. a good insulator. Heavier duty cartons contain two layers of trapped air columns, which provides even better insulation. They also make three layered stuff, but that is nowhere near as common. A snake that is bromating usually does not like to be disturbed and the visual block provided by cardboard helps in this respect, as already mentioned.

Posts #64 & #65 are about positioning the thermostat probe, something there is often disagreement over. The more traditional logic says it should be on the warm spot. (It also doesn’t help that individuals putting it elsewhere will not infrequently set the temperature using the thermostat markings only.) For whatever reasons, where you have put it works for you (as measured by a thermometer). I suspect it probably has something to do with the substrate but I won’t go into that here. One should not let theoretical predictions or statistics override the empirical outcomes. You have achieved the end result you were looking for and that’s what matters.

In Post #63 you stated “I stuffed it didn't I by adding too many holes and holes on the top.” I recall a thread where Sdaji said he used to glue a section of insect screen in the lid of his click clacks for ventilation. So I went searching and located the following link. A peek at that should put your mind at ease: https://www.aussiepythons.com/threads/click-clack-plastic-tub-sizing-help.224891/post-2526271

Reckon you managed to elicit some really worthwhile information from a good cross-section of members with this thread. Probably time to start a new one if you have any new questions that are not queries or comments on this stuff.

Thank you for the sentiments expressed. Like others, I am happy to help where I can, when I can. The only thing that worries me is use of the term ‘digesting’ on its own. I think we all know what digested material that isn’t then absorbed forms…
 

Mack86

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So the probe is measuring the warm spot it's just not inside the container anymore it's in-between the mat and the bottom of the tub. I read in a thread on here that it was the best place to put it as then it cannot get moved by the snake or defecated on etc etc. And the people who said it were members who's opinions I really respect and value.

My thermometer (which is placed inside the hide on top of the substrate) appears to be measuring the same temps by temp gun gets so I am fairly confident. I understand there are different ways, my main concern in that the way in which I have chosen to do it is in no way dangerous to the snake or plastic or
anything near it. If that makes sense.

Thank you once again for all that info. Greatly appreciated and I will digest it FULLY and use it so as not to.... Well you know... Haha
 

dragonlover1

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Thank you for responding again dragon, please know that I appreciate your advice.

I have a thermometer inside his hide which is constantly reading between 32 and 33 degrees. I am struggling to understand how that isn't a true indication of the temperature. My temp gun measures the same?

Honestly, I give up now , this is all too hard.
don't give up
 
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Bluetongue1

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You stated: “I will digest it FULLY …” Sorry, not good enough! Remember that physiologically you also need to ABSORB it, otherwise it turns to…
(Just being a little pedantic to extract some humour.)

If you think about it, your concerns are not logical. You have the right temperature happening where you need it. That is what every keeper strives to do. Give yourself more credit for what you have achieved and stop being such a worry wort. It’s time to relax and accept that you are doing a good job with your critter.

As for enjoying your snake, well it’s not quite the season for handling yet. Even when it is, you need to bear in mind that reptiles are somewhere between fish and furry pets. Fish are “look at only” and reptiles are not too far away from this. Essentially, at the appropriate time of year you can train your snake to accept being handled, if done properly. This is a bridge you can cross when you get to it.

Your comments reminded me of a very important guideline that should be adhered to with respect to heating. Always use the minimum wattage heat source required to attain the required temperature/s. This way, if the thermostat fails you are much less likely to end up with fried reptiles. These animals can tolerate cold for lengthy periods of time but die quickly when overheated. Quality thermostats these days seldom ever fail, unlike many of those in the past. But why take the chance? Lower wattage heat sources are also invariably cheaper to purchase.
 
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Mack86

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😂

Thanks Bluetongue, you're right I do need to give myself more credit and stop being a worry wort!

Thanks for the vote of confidence too 😊

Appreciate everyone's help a lot, thanks again to all.

When is the season? When it's warm. Yes, that's vague. I can't tell you it's October 24th, because it's a little different at each locality, season and for each individual.
@Sdaji , you mention here about October 24th..... I'm starting to think you might be a weather specialist without actually realising it because where I live October 24th will be the first day in a long long while where it will be quite warm LOL.

It's literally an 8 degree jump in temps from what I've been having in my location from 22 up to 30 degrees and set to possibly stay that way.

Perhaps you could start a career in weather? 🤣

Needless to say, I'm hoping for some luck with feeding come the end of this month 🤞
 

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