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Flaviemys purvisi

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imagine what you could do for the species with a $100k funding and support o_O
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I could achieve just as much if the ARP gave me their 12 adult purvisi that they collected from the wild and less than $10,000. That's the reality. $$ won't save them, not if the public or government threw 100 million dollars at the ARP.
 

Sdaji

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This is a good point. Sometimes money itself isn't enough to solve a problem, and some solutions can be had with little to no money. In any situation, any amount of money in the wrong place will be entirely wasted, regardless of how well-intentioned the donors are.

To actively suppress to solution though, that takes a special level of either incompetence or evil.
 

Flaviemys purvisi

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What's funny... the setup I've bred purvisi in now for 6-7 consecutive years cost me $1,000 to build... is completely 100% artificially controlled by myself, not 1 bit of it is naturally controlled or influenced by mother nature.

Knowledge.. achieves far more than $$
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This goes to show how little these government departments know... Mr Andrew Steed, chief NSW ecologist called today regarding Craig's letter, and says well purvis, bells and Georges turtles aren't held on licence by anyone in the state of NSW.. Oh man was he in for a shock when I informed him that Bell's, purvis and Georgesi are ALL held on licence in NSW by private keepers, not only are they held, they're bred (not purvis) and traded across the border into QLD! The bloke nearly fell off his chair, reckons that's not true it can't be, it's not allowed... lol what?!?! I said mate, I literally inquired about a trade 2 months ago with a breeder of Georgesi in NSW for some of my captive bred purvisi... there's Georgesi in QLD as far north as Cairns and there's more purvisi held on licence in QLD than all the other allowed endangered species combined and at least a dozen who've acquired Bell's from NSW lol... Andrew nearly had a heart attack... they clearly have no idea who has what and never have and then he mentioned how Marc and I were told by QLD DES to freeze purvisi eggs... reckons he's getting into contact with DES to find out WTF is going on as there's no way that directive is acceptable...

It's been a humorous few hours on the phone... they blindly make these policies thinking it'll affect no one then wonder why there's such a public backlash.

I need to turn my phone off... in the last week I've had more calls than what I've had in the last 20 years.
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Still no answers... what am I to do with purvisi eggs post 2022?? It's a simple question.... DES palmed it off to QPWS... This is their reply...20210219_122027.jpg
 
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Sdaji

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Heh, tell passionate conservationists to desist in reproducing endangered species and destroy their offspring... play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Hopefully in the wake of this nonsense being resolved there will be at least a little more common sense in the system.
 

Flaviemys purvisi

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Heh, tell passionate conservationists to desist in reproducing endangered species and destroy their offspring... play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Hopefully in the wake of this nonsense being resolved there will be at least a little more common sense in the system.
You can tell it was s really well thought out policy... try and follow it and commit an offence... don't follow it, commit an offence... and the winner is??
 

Sdaji

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You can tell it was s really well thought out policy... try and follow it and commit an offence... don't follow it, commit an offence... and the winner is??

It's a great shame that many of the... people... making these rules are bureaucrats with no knowledge or understanding of what they are managing, and no interest in learning about what they're managing, and apparently in many cases they don't even think there's a chance that they'll be pulled up on it if they make utterly absurd rules, or they're just so incredibly incompetent that they think insanity like this makes sense, or perhaps they just don't think it's important enough to care about and assume no one else thinks it's important either. There really should be intelligent people with a genuine interest in ecology and conservation in these roles. Ironically, such people probably wouldn't be particularly interested in the role and the powers that be wouldn't consider them to be good fits for the positions. At the very least they could get someone smart enough not to recommend the literal destruction of the offspring of endangered species which have plenty of very eager people wanting to give them homes at zero cost to the taxpayer.

Then again, bureaucrats make errors just as obvious and even more destructive even when it comes to issues like the CCP virus management, international relations, etc, so we can't set our expectations too high for conservation.
 

Flaviemys purvisi

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It gets better... if you inquire as to why purvis are now deemed "restricted" in QLD the reply is because they're endangered... yet the species actually on the list allowed to be kept by private keepers include - Fitzroy river turtles, Irwin's turtles, Bell's turtles, Mary River turtles, Jardine river turtles and Southern Snapping turtles.... all of which are IUCN listed and endangered but more to the point, endemic to QLD whereas purvis are not and therefore are of least concern. Ultimately it is proof that the ARP has conspired with the NSW government and put pressure on the QLD government to draft up and push through a ridiculous policy that gives the ARP complete control of the species to secure ongoimg public funding to breed and "save" them. Oh but wait... there's more.... the ARP is relinquishing captive control of purvis turtles to the state of South Australia... so South Australians will be the only ones legally allowed to keep, breed and trade Manning River turtles, but not QLD (where there's more purvis held on licence than any other endangered species) or NSW... what?!?! How does that even make any sense at all?? Where are the turtles going to come from if they've only ever been bred by private keepers in QLD and we're no longer allowed to keep, breed or trade?? Thia is just NSW saying FU to QLD...

I'm sorry but no, this just won't do... not one single aspect of this new policy is of benefit to the species it's been created to protect. Once they're extinct in the wild (now inevitable) the only ones left will be the specimens the ARP have poached with government permission, 12, and those they've bred (0) and the one's bred and held in QLD (currently over 250) considering it's estimated there's less than 1,000 left in the wild.... yes, it makes complete sense to restrict.them in QLD and put a stop to the only documented successful keeping and breeding of them.

Well done.

141704635_105737548184912_8085389604996327427_o-1.jpg

Watching a creature that's existed pre-extinction event that wiped out the dinosaurs slowly disappear is extremely frustrating for me... especially when myself and others that have the ability to prevent this are being lawfully bound by a new policy which will achieve nothing but the acceleration of purvisi's disappearance.

Purvisi will be the 1st Australian freshwater turtle declared extinct in the wild in NSW, if not all of Australia.
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Probably the worst youtube video I've seen from ARP yet regarding purvisi.

I commented to correct all the misinformation being fed to the public.
 
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Herpetology

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It gets better... if you inquire as to why purvis are now deemed "restricted" in QLD the reply is because they're endangered... yet the species actually on the list allowed to be kept by private keepers include - Fitzroy river turtles, Irwin's turtles, Bell's turtles, Mary River turtles, Jardine river turtles and Southern Snapping turtles.... all of which are IUCN listed and endangered but more to the point, endemic to QLD whereas purvis are not and therefore are of least concern. Ultimately it is proof that the ARP has conspired with the NSW government and put pressure on the QLD government to draft up and push through a ridiculous policy that gives the ARP complete control of the species to secure ongoimg public funding to breed and "save" them. Oh but wait... there's more.... the ARP is relinquishing captive control of purvis turtles to the state of South Australia... so South Australians will be the only ones legally allowed to keep, breed and trade Manning River turtles, but not QLD (where there's more purvis held on licence than any other endangered species) or NSW... what?!?! How does that even make any sense at all?? Where are the turtles going to come from if they've only ever been bred by private keepers in QLD and we're no longer allowed to keep, breed or trade?? Thia is just NSW saying FU to QLD...

I'm sorry but no, this just won't do... not one single aspect of this new policy is of benefit to the species it's been created to protect. Once they're extinct in the wild (now inevitable) the only ones left will be the specimens the ARP have poached with government permission, 12, and those they've bred (0) and the one's bred and held in QLD (currently over 250) considering it's estimated there's less than 1,000 left in the wild.... yes, it makes complete sense to restrict.them in QLD and put a stop to the only documented successful keeping and breeding of them.

Well done.

View attachment 330707

Watching a creature that's existed pre-extinction event that wiped out the dinosaurs slowly disappear is extremely frustrating for me... especially when myself and others that have the ability to prevent this are being lawfully bound by a new policy which will achieve nothing but the acceleration of purvisi's disappearance.

Purvisi will be the 1st Australian freshwater turtle declared extinct in the wild in NSW, if not all of Australia.
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Probably the worst youtube video I've seen from ARP yet regarding purvisi.

I commented to correct all the misinformation being fed to the public.
ur comments been deleted matey hahaha (atleast, i cant see it anymore)
 

Flaviemys purvisi

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ur comments been deleted matey hahaha (atleast, i cant see it anymore)
Yeah not surprised at all... fortunately I emailed my comment to myself as it was quite long so I can copy/paste and repost it relentlessly.

As a private keeper and breeder of Wollumbinia purvisi now for many years up here in the state of QLD where it's sunny one day and perfect the next I must say I found this video at first rather amusing but then most importantly extremely full of misinformation. So let's get about setting the record straight. ARP never had nor ever will have claim to an Australian or world first record with captive breeding this species nor does the future of this species rest solely on the success of this project. This video claims that "Manning river turtles" reach maturity at 5-6 years... absolute boohockey... the generation gap of Wollumbinia purvisi is actually 15-20 years, they couldn't even be accurately sexed as either male or female at 5 years of age. The video claims they can grow up to 30cm... and live for 50-60 years, incorrect. The average adult female size is actually closer to 18cm with males being smaller... also the average clutch size is around 12-14 eggs not 20+ W. purvisi being such a slow species to reach maturity would live well beyond 60 years, a good 2-3 decades beyond. The video claims the Manning river turtle is Australia's oldest turtle, it is not, the Lavaracks turtle (gulf snapper) predates Wollumbinia purvisi by a further 60 million years. Dan also mentions that males are far more vibrant than the dull females.. rubbish! Females are equally as vibrant and in many cases more so. Some of my own females are better looking than the males, Marc Dorse also notes this within his own collection.

I currently have 12 W. purvisi hatchlings right now from a clutch that was laid on October 18th and hatched on December 7th (might I add without a 100k + public handout or state of the art facility, I'm a fully self funded home run operation) I do this because I LOVE, live and breathe turtles, I don't get paid from 9-5 Monday to Friday to keep, rear and breed turtles then get weekend's/public holidays off, this is a full-time and expensive hobby I maintain by having a full time day job to fund my efforts that I've been in for the last 18 years.

The video shows hatchlings that are apparently being prepared for wild release... well how can they be prepared for wild release in bare glass bottomed tanks that aren't blacked out on all sides?? Such setups prevent turtles from exhibiting all natural instinctive defensive behaviours. Those young turtles have already imprinted in their brains that humans are where their food comes from and aren't the slightest bit afraid of a giant glove covered hand approaching them. Those hatchlings placed into the wild now would last all of 5 minutes... they've been set up to fail. They're domesticated now because of visual overexposure to humans and a feeding regime that associates humans with food. Epic FAIL there. Nail polish marked plastrons which make them stand out like dog's balls to predators... camouflage fail.
Releasing them is a fool's errand anyway... the foxes that predate upon the nests haven't been erradicated, the introduced Emydura macquarrii that are displacing Wollumbinia purvisi haven't been eradicated, the impacts of climate change and agricultural pressures upon their tiny natural range haven't been reversed so really... plopping them back into the river/s achieves nothing in the scope of things.... sure some may survive a little while and make it look like a huge success and $$ well spent but it won't achieve anything in the long run. The little purvisi that do survive the eels and birds will probably grow up if conditions allow it, for what?? To have their own nests destroyed or be predated on themselves by foxes or to be made genetically redundant by crossbreeding with introduced Emydura sp?? This project video by ARP is fooling everyone into believing success is now inevitable but those of us who actually know anything about the situation see it very differently... this project is not actually going to save anything as far as wild populations go, it will however temporarily prolong the inevitable.
Wollumbinia purvisi has no future in the Manning river or its tributaries. Not until all detrimental impacts on the species are addressed and dealt with accordingly.
It is terribly sad but true.

For now, the immediate future of Wollumbinia purvisi rests in the more experienced and capable hands of private captive breeders like Marc Dorse and myself who have been making vital inroads into gaining a full understanding of this now rare and unique turtle's ecology and our combined vision to firmly establish this species in the captive trade where its future will be secure no matter what happens in the wild.

Finally, the recent law changes regarding the private keeping and breeding of protected wildlife imposed upon QLD keepers thanks to pressure applied on our government by certain parties based in NSW will ultimately seal Wollumbinia purvisi's fate of extinction if those changes are not revoked in the near future. This is not a game, it is not a joke, there will be no do-overs or second chances... politics and professional jealousy cannot stand in the way of the common good. This species has existed unchanged for over 80 million years, it is LITERALLY a living fossil and it's on the brink of extinction now thanks to the gross errors and mismanagement by every NSW department in the last 200. They say the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, the second best time is now. This applies for Wollumbinia purvisi... the best time to start acting was 20 years ago and there's a handful of us up here in QLD that recognised this species was in urgent need of conservation effort long before the various NSW depts came to the party. We already have a substantial headstart on establishing a solid captive bred insurance population for this species. Why would anybody conservation minded want to cease our combined efforts that cost neither the Government or Australian public nothing, not one red cent? It just does not make any sense.

Kevin McKay - private keeper / Wollumbinia purvisi breeder / Australian freshwater turtle conservationist - Toowoomba QLD.
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And further up the ladder of BS we climb...
QPWS.pngQPWS reply.png

And now we wait some more....
 
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CF Constrictor

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Well done F P !!!
Im sure you have the full support of everyone hear and anyone truely interested in conserving our wildlife. Im also sure that what you have done will lead to a positive outcome for both man and turtle. So a great big THANKS from Suzi , Rusty , Bozo and Doug.
 

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What a crazy situation, it's scary to think what our gov. can, and does, do. @Flaviemys purvisi good luck on the 22-23rd. Record this meeting for us - and evidence/footage for TV (or court lol)?. Unbelievable.

Thanks for your massive effort. I'm sure it really sucks.
 

Flaviemys purvisi

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What a crazy situation, it's scary to think what our gov. can, and does, do. @Flaviemys purvisi good luck on the 22-23rd. Record this meeting for us - and evidence/footage for TV (or court lol)?. Unbelievable.

Thanks for your massive effort. I'm sure it really sucks.
Hi mate, Marc will be out of town on those proposed dates so we'll be rescheduling for a time suitable for both of us.
 

Sdaji

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Sounds like a very long and wordy way of saying "It's my job to patiently tolerate listening to you before proceeding with the awkward task of telling you that you have to follow the rules. I was chosen for this task as someone who isn't involved in making the rules and can't change them anyway"
 

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