Hi guys,
I thought I'd start this thread to promote a discussion on the potential for thiamin or vitamin B1 deficiency in Colubrids, especially Common Tree Snakes. This has seemed to hit panic stations in certain quarters and I'm not sure that it's warranted.
Obviously nothing can be as good as their natural diet, but that's not available to (most of) us. The next best option is fish. However, once they get to a certain size, an exclusively fish diet becomes undesirable for two main reasons: 1) goldfish (carp) are by far the most economical feeder fish to buy, and 2) carp contain thiaminase, which inhibits the absorption of thiamin (vit B1).
Thiamin deficiency is a cumulative condition that develops over time and is reversible once symptoms occur (not that you'd ever want it to get to that stage). The following are some excerpts from websites that I've found during my research ...
Cornell University Department of Animal Science
Animals suffering from thiamin deficiency due to the ingestion of thiaminases generally respond very well to treatment if caught early. Intra-muscular of injections of thiamin, and removing the source of the thiaminase from the animal's diet, are usually sufficient to bring around full recovery.
Nutritional Related Diseases in Reptiles by Joerg Mayer, Dr.medvet, M.Sc.
Hypovitaminosis B1: This disease can be seen primarily in reptiles, which are being fed a large quantity of fish (e.g. garter snakes, aquatic turtles). The diagnosis, usually established by the clinical signs, will be primarily neurological in character (e.g. opisthotonos, blindness, torticollis), in combination with the feeding history (feeding fish species with high thiaminase activity).
This disease can be avoided by feeding fish that have been gutted, because most thiaminase is present in the gut, or by pre-cooking the fish, which will inactivate the thiaminase enzyme. Supplementation of B vitamins is also recommended; however, the deficiency can also occur even when fish are fed together with a vitamin B supplement because relatively small amounts of the enzyme thiaminase are able to deactivate very large amounts of thiamin.
Obviously we can't gut our goldfish, but we can supplement their diet. I know of several old-school herpers who use Vetafarm Sea Bird Tablets. These were originally designed to supplement the diets of fish-eating birds such as penguins kept in zoos. In my 3+ years keeping and now breeding CTS, I have never seen a case of thiamin deficiency, despite mostly coming into contact with snakes that are predominantly (if not exclusively) fed on goldfish. However, I have spoken to people who have and they say the symptoms are quite obvious. They have then been able to reverse the effects with supplementation.
Article: Thiaminase � What it is, why you care
Regular intake of substantial amounts of food containing thiaminase could introduce enough thiaminase into the gut to break down the thiamine in food & render an animal thiamine-deficient.
This, together with the paragraph above, I take to mean that whilst supplementation is a viable option, a varied diet is preferable. However, I think - and this is only my opinion - we need to be careful not to go running to a rodent-heavy diet, particularly in younger snakes, simply for fear of thiaminase. I think there's a reason why they don't eat them, or other mammals, in the wild.
The best alternative food source that I've found so far is trout - fry for juveniles, fingerlings for adults. Like all salmonidae, they contain no thiaminase and CTS love them - perhaps it's because their slimey skin reminds them more of their natural diet ... ie frogs. The downside is sourcing the trout and then keeping them alive for any length of time.
I've decided not to finish with my own conclusion, save for one warning: don't start introducing young Common Tree Snakes (< 2 years) to a rodent-heavy diet without giving the alternatives serious consideration.
[ For searching purposes: tree snake colubrid ]
I thought I'd start this thread to promote a discussion on the potential for thiamin or vitamin B1 deficiency in Colubrids, especially Common Tree Snakes. This has seemed to hit panic stations in certain quarters and I'm not sure that it's warranted.
Obviously nothing can be as good as their natural diet, but that's not available to (most of) us. The next best option is fish. However, once they get to a certain size, an exclusively fish diet becomes undesirable for two main reasons: 1) goldfish (carp) are by far the most economical feeder fish to buy, and 2) carp contain thiaminase, which inhibits the absorption of thiamin (vit B1).
Thiamin deficiency is a cumulative condition that develops over time and is reversible once symptoms occur (not that you'd ever want it to get to that stage). The following are some excerpts from websites that I've found during my research ...
Cornell University Department of Animal Science
Animals suffering from thiamin deficiency due to the ingestion of thiaminases generally respond very well to treatment if caught early. Intra-muscular of injections of thiamin, and removing the source of the thiaminase from the animal's diet, are usually sufficient to bring around full recovery.
Nutritional Related Diseases in Reptiles by Joerg Mayer, Dr.medvet, M.Sc.
Hypovitaminosis B1: This disease can be seen primarily in reptiles, which are being fed a large quantity of fish (e.g. garter snakes, aquatic turtles). The diagnosis, usually established by the clinical signs, will be primarily neurological in character (e.g. opisthotonos, blindness, torticollis), in combination with the feeding history (feeding fish species with high thiaminase activity).
This disease can be avoided by feeding fish that have been gutted, because most thiaminase is present in the gut, or by pre-cooking the fish, which will inactivate the thiaminase enzyme. Supplementation of B vitamins is also recommended; however, the deficiency can also occur even when fish are fed together with a vitamin B supplement because relatively small amounts of the enzyme thiaminase are able to deactivate very large amounts of thiamin.
Obviously we can't gut our goldfish, but we can supplement their diet. I know of several old-school herpers who use Vetafarm Sea Bird Tablets. These were originally designed to supplement the diets of fish-eating birds such as penguins kept in zoos. In my 3+ years keeping and now breeding CTS, I have never seen a case of thiamin deficiency, despite mostly coming into contact with snakes that are predominantly (if not exclusively) fed on goldfish. However, I have spoken to people who have and they say the symptoms are quite obvious. They have then been able to reverse the effects with supplementation.
Article: Thiaminase � What it is, why you care
Regular intake of substantial amounts of food containing thiaminase could introduce enough thiaminase into the gut to break down the thiamine in food & render an animal thiamine-deficient.
This, together with the paragraph above, I take to mean that whilst supplementation is a viable option, a varied diet is preferable. However, I think - and this is only my opinion - we need to be careful not to go running to a rodent-heavy diet, particularly in younger snakes, simply for fear of thiaminase. I think there's a reason why they don't eat them, or other mammals, in the wild.
The best alternative food source that I've found so far is trout - fry for juveniles, fingerlings for adults. Like all salmonidae, they contain no thiaminase and CTS love them - perhaps it's because their slimey skin reminds them more of their natural diet ... ie frogs. The downside is sourcing the trout and then keeping them alive for any length of time.
I've decided not to finish with my own conclusion, save for one warning: don't start introducing young Common Tree Snakes (< 2 years) to a rodent-heavy diet without giving the alternatives serious consideration.
[ For searching purposes: tree snake colubrid ]
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