What do I need to provide for an ELN to Brumate outdoors?

[Yoshi]

Hi All. I’m in Sydney and have moved our ELN to an outdoor enclosure. It’s around 500l, 1.5mx1.5m wide and around 6-700mm deep. The turtle seems happy and healthy but with winter approaching I’m thinking I have to increase his enclosure to include a Small area of garden for him to Brumate in.
Do I need to provide an covered dry area for him like under a log etc? ( a wooden box?) Does fluctuating temperature affect them? Or will he want to dig a hole and bury himself?
I gather that some will choose to Brumate in the water but is this only if there is a layer of mud to burrow into?
I have trawled the net but cannot find much detail about this, any advice would be very welcome.
I would really prefer to keep him in his enclosure so he can choose when to start and finish this process.
thanks
Yoshi

In case anyone is interested I spoke to Debbie from Turtles r us and got the low down. A small dry box, line the bottom wit grass clippings. I'll put this in soon so he knows where it is. They say will stop eating in April in NSW or when night time temps drop to around 8-10C.

 

[Kachua]

Yoshi, when ELN turtles spend the period of winter dormancy on land it is an instinctive reaction to their aquatic environment….the majority of wild specimens won’t spend winter on land.
In the last 14-15 years we have kept our ELNs in larger volume ponds that are up to 1.2m deep, they no longer spend winter on land. It’s all thermoregulatory instinct, meaning - they will search for an area with a more static temperature range.
Our job as keepers is to provide choices for the turtles, so in your case it’s good to provide a dry hide but consideration should be given to increasing pond water volume and depth.
Regarding feeding, I usually cease when average water temps drop below 16°c.

 

[Flaviemys purvisi]

Hi mate, your ELN most likely won't brumate, it will remain entirely active throughout winter, basking in the day and mating if a mate is present or seeking a mate if one is not. The only difference in its behaviour you will notice is that it'll show zero interest in food. My ELN's do not brumate, even when down to single digits. It certainly won't seek to leave the water to do so, the only time this happens is when turtles aestivate during prolonged periods of extreme heat or drought like Chelodina steindachneri of western Australia.

 

[Herpetology]

Hi mate, your ELN most likely won't brumate, it will remain entirely active throughout winter, basking in the day and mating if a mate is present or seeking a mate if one is not. The only difference in its behaviour you will notice is that it'll show zero interest in food. My ELN's do not brumate, even when down to single digits. It certainly won't seek to leave the water to do so, the only time this happens is when turtles aestivate during prolonged periods of extreme heat or drought like Chelodina steindachneri of western Australia.

I have no idea what u said Kev, but I agree

 

[Yoshi]

Yoshi, when ELN turtles spend the period of winter dormancy on land it is an instinctive reaction to their aquatic environment….the majority of wild specimens won’t spend winter on land.
In the last 14-15 years we have kept our ELNs in larger volume ponds that are up to 1.2m deep, they no longer spend winter on land. It’s all thermoregulatory instinct, meaning - they will search for an area with a more static temperature range.
Our job as keepers is to provide choices for the turtles, so in your case it’s good to provide a dry hide but consideration should be given to increasing pond water volume and depth.
Regarding feeding, I usually cease when average water temps drop below 16°c.

Thanks Kachua
I have stopped feeding him though he still is asking for food which is difficult. Water temp now at 14C. I can’t really make pond deeper. Currently around 6-700mm.
Yoshi

Hi mate, your ELN most likely won't brumate, it will remain entirely active throughout winter, basking in the day and mating if a mate is present or seeking a mate if one is not. The only difference in its behaviour you will notice is that it'll show zero interest in food. My ELN's do not brumate, even when down to single digits. It certainly won't seek to leave the water to do so, the only time this happens is when turtles aestivate during prolonged periods of extreme heat or drought like Chelodina steindachneri of western Australia.

Thanks
That’s interesting, your comments about what ELN actually do seems to differ from what the are supposed to. Thanks. If the little bugger keeps asking for food, do I relent? I haven’t weighed him and as he’s relatively new to me (6 months) I’m not 100% sure I’m feeding him enough so don’t actually know if he has enough reserves to carry him thru winter?
Thanks again
Yoshi

Yoshi, when ELN turtles spend the period of winter dormancy on land it is an instinctive reaction to their aquatic environment….the majority of wild specimens won’t spend winter on land.
In the last 14-15 years we have kept our ELNs in larger volume ponds that are up to 1.2m deep, they no longer spend winter on land. It’s all thermoregulatory instinct, meaning - they will search for an area with a more static temperature range.
Our job as keepers is to provide choices for the turtles, so in your case it’s good to provide a dry hide but consideration should be given to increasing pond water volume and depth.
Regarding feeding, I usually cease when average water temps drop below 16°c.

The box I made him n land gets a bit
Of morning sun so this is probably no good at all.
The pond gets about an hour or two of sun early/mid morning.
Thankyou
Yoshi

 

[Yoshi]

Hi mate, your ELN most likely won't brumate, it will remain entirely active throughout winter, basking in the day and mating if a mate is present or seeking a mate if one is not. The only difference in its behaviour you will notice is that it'll show zero interest in food. My ELN's do not brumate, even when down to single digits. It certainly won't seek to leave the water to do so, the only time this happens is when turtles aestivate during prolonged periods of extreme heat or drought like Chelodina steindachneri of western Australia.

Thanks for the info. If Turtle ‘begs for food’ do we trust him to know what’s best or withhold food in your opinion?

 

[Flaviemys purvisi]

Thanks for the info. If Turtle ‘begs for food’ do we trust him to know what’s best or withhold food in your opinion?

Your turtle requires feeding once per day, an amount the size of its head. Any more is excessive.

 

[Yoshi]

Your turtle requires feeding once per day, an amount the size of its head. Any more is excessive.

thanks FP. Do you suggest to continue feeding as long as he appears hungry (I generally feed every other day) as opposed to ceasing feeding when Ave temp drops below 16C as Kachua suggests?

I have no idea what u said Kev, but I agree

So are you saying that he will go right thru this period being active but not eating???