What makes a Jungle a Jungle ?

[Retic]

It's a simple question but the answer seems to be very complicated and probably more complicated than it needs to be.
When is a Jungle a Jungle and not a mcdowelli ?
For example what is the snake in this photo ? Is it mcdowelli or cheynei and why is it one and not the other ? It is a few years old and about 4 feet long.

 

[Cheyne_Jones]

This will be interesting, I am also keen to know how people decide what is what.

In my little experience the first thing I look for is a strong solid black head pattern, with a solid black line along the side of the head through the eye. So going by that I would call it a jungle, but I have no field experience in jungle teritory so I am ready to be proven wrong lol.

 

[Barno111]

This is a very hard thing to answer as it brings up the topic of hybrids! The way i usally tell the differnce between a jungle and a coastal is the head scales on a coastal tend to be alot larger then a jungle, As well as the head pattern. This is a good topic but it can also be put towards with many other species of the carpet python group!

 

[Retic]

Well I am hoping it is interesting as I have lost count of how many 'what is my snake' threads, only to see no real consensus reached at the end.

 

[wranga]

interesting, tho i wont make a comment either way. maybe worth getting the flame suit on

 

[JasonL]

haha Boa, are you trying to start a wild fire?? :lol:... A jungle is only a jungle when it's found in the Jungle..... But deep down, we all know their all the same thing, thats unless you breed and sell them . OK... if I was to buy a "Jungle " I would expect a Black and Gold animal, with a top length of 4-5 feet, and an attitude worse than my wifes after I get home from a boys night at 6am... Flame On!

 

[Retic]

Actually I want to hear peoples views on this, there is certainly no reason for it to become heated. They are different sub species so by rights should be fairly easily separated but this doesn't seem to be the case.
Maybe I should have asked for help naming my Jungle then I would have 3 pages by now.

 

[Southside Morelia]

Well Ash, i'm saying your animal in the pic is a Cheynei, as the only reference point for me, is the solid head pattern. Is this correct, as I assume you know the animals lineage?
As far as the genetic stuff, i'm out guys...i'll leave that debate to the smart ones...lol
Interested to hear the opinions though....

 

[Retic]

Thanks Scott, as far as I know that snake is a Cape York, I can't be 100% as I didn't catch it or it's offspring It's not so much about that particular snake as I consider it cheynei but I am interested to hear other peoples views on what makes a top end carpet a mcdowelli or a cheynei. .
Don't worry it's not only the smart ones who get into the genetics debates

 

[W.T.BUY]

haha boa, are you trying to start a wild fire?? :lol:... A jungle is only a jungle when it's found in the jungle..... But deep down, we all know their all the same thing, thats unless you breed and sell them . Ok... If i was to buy a "jungle " i would expect a black and gold animal, with a top length of 4-5 feet, and an attitude worse than my wifes after i get home from a boys night at 6am... Flame on!

pmsl

 

[cockney red]

Actually I want to hear peoples views on this, there is certainly no reason for it to become heated. They are different sub species so by rights should be fairly easily separated but this doesn't seem to be the case.
Maybe I should have asked for help naming my Jungle then I would have 3 pages by now.

Fluffy...

 

[cockney red]

No expert on Jungles, I think they are more contentious than Diamonds, but not as flammable ...

 

[eipper]

I am watching with interest....as I don't believe that they can be split by way of a key....if they cannot be keyed and genetics tells us that they are the same then.....I reckon you have a Carpet Python...

Cheers,
Scott

Ps still hunting that paper down mate...its been a little hectic of late

 

[Southside Morelia]

Don't worry it's not only the smart ones who get into the genetics debates

Or any other debate for that matter mate...lol
Nice to see you posting again!

 

[Bushfire]

Life would be so much easier if those that split them up did a half decent job about it, or if everyone that accepted the split asked more probing questions or ignored it till better research was done. However Im with eipper on this I dont believe they can be split.

 

[Waterrat]

This is very similar to what has been discussed in the Antaresia thread. If colour and patters are the only characters distinguishing the subspecies, then it's not much to go by. They have the same scalation, DNA and they readily crossbreed, as been said, just two carpets. I am running for cover now!

 

[Khagan]

Maybe it's neither, maybe it could be a coastal/jungle intergrade? I've always wondered why the only main publicised intergrade is coastal/diamond, but could it be possible a lot of coastals or jungles are intergrades between the two but not thought of that way? Or maybe i could just be way off the mark =p seen as i've never been to coastal or jungle territory, but it seems their "ranges" overlap.

 

[JasonL]

I know nothing about genetics, but one thing I'd really like to know is how different are human genetics around the globe compaired to some of the different species of reptiles that have been carved up into numerous sub species ect.....

 

[Troyster]

OK... if I was to buy a "Jungle " I would expect a Black and Gold animal, with a top length of 4-5 feet, and an attitude worse than my wifes after I get home from a boys night at 6am... Flame On!

I have a Krauss line Black and Gold Jungle,and while he will hiss at me, my Murray Darling has bitten more times,come to think of it my Jungle has only even struck at me once and that was more of a head butt than a strike.

 

[Waterrat]

Jason,
I am sure if the taxonomists had a go at us, we too would be split into numerous subspecies currently referred as "races". The distinguishing characters would be height and body weight (this would straightaway form two sub-species: fatsos and normos), colour of the skin, patterns wouldn't count because too many people die their hair to weird colours (no consistency) and behavioural patterns would be unreliable too. Habitat partitioning is stuffed by boat people and illegal immigrants and reproductive preferences are ...... not to mention religion,..... oh well.
Just as well that we have political correctness, that keeps the taxonomists at bay. LOL