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noved

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as long as they are well kept, I don't care. I only have a beef with mistreatment and taking from the wild!

and how exactly do you think the exotics got here...by being caught in there own countries and in there own wild then jamed into some one undies do be smuggled over here if thats not mistreatment what is...
 

saximus

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and how exactly do you think the exotics got here...by being caught in there own countries and in there own wild then jamed into some one undies do be smuggled over here if thats not mistreatment what is...

That reasoning is flawed when you're talking about animals that have been bred here from the smuggled animals. These animals never suffered that sort of mistreatment
 
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Snowman

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and how exactly do you think the exotics got here...by being caught in there own countries and in there own wild then jamed into some one undies do be smuggled over here if thats not mistreatment what is...
There are better ways than that to bring animals in. Also a lot are captive bred.
 

Megzz

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I also think alot of people on this site get so raging about exotics simply because they are illegal without really knowing anything else. If i kept a corn snake and did not breed or let escape and was just like any other python i see no harm. Somewhat like the steroid scene ( for keen gym peoples will know what i am talking about ) how they are illegal and that's why they are so bad lmao.
No one ever intends for their animals to escape, yet how often does it happen!
 
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Bluetongue1

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I also think alot of people on this site get so raging about exotics simply because they are illegal without really knowing anything else. If i kept a corn snake and did not breed or let escape and was just like any other python i see no harm. Somewhat like the steroid scene ( for keen gym peoples will know what i am talking about ) how they are illegal and that's why they are so bad lmao.
The problem does not come from someone having one or more exotics in their possession. The problems come from how they obtained those animals and what they do with them.

Animals that have been breed in Australia may very likely have the capacity to breed under natural conditions. Considering the lack of control, they may well end up in an area with a suitable climate and habitat. Escapes or deliberate dumping of no longer wanted animals can then result in establishment of a feral population. Some of the species are going to be invasive, especially under the right environmental conditions.

If you are buying an animal that has not been bred here, but smuggled in... Has the smuggler quarantined it? Given that it costs them time, money and increased chance of being discovered to do so and they cannot make any more money out of appropriately quarantined animals, the likely answer is no. Consequently such animals could be carrying an exotic disease or parasites. If brought into contact with other reptiles, captive or wild, the disease or parasite can spread. Once established here, it can become a problem for legal and illegal collections as well as natural populations.

Hundreds (if not more) of legally held reptiles are stolen every year from licensed collectors like yourselves. Stolen reptiles cannot be legalised so they are destined to end up in illegal collections, either here or possibly overseas. Those illegal collections include the keepers of exotics. Those smuggling animals out of the country are likely to also be smuggling animals in. The very existence of illegal collections is what provides a market and is the driving force behind reptile theft.

While you may be able to point to a "responsible keeper" of exotics, every single animal bought contributes to a system which provides the very real chance of introduction of foreign reptile pest and diseases, establishment of an invasive exotic and sustains the high levels of reptile thefts from legal collections. So you might think your "single corn snake" is doing no harm... WRONG!

Blue
 

snakeluvver

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Is it just me or is APS as a whole suddenly a lot more tolerant of exotics?
Seriously, everyone goes on about how bad they are, then when someone admits to owning one they often think its fine and that people who say otherwise are being arrogant. Yes, walking on the right side of the path or whatever is illegal and we all do it, but owning an exotic is a completely different thing.
Just how I see it, due to recent threads.
 

Renenet

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Is it just me or is APS as a whole suddenly a lot more tolerant of exotics?

I think you are right Snakeluvver. For the reasons Blue mentioned, plus my dislike of animal smuggling, I'm not one of the tolerant ones.
 

PythonLegs

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Well, it's a date to mark on the calender..not only did I read ALL of bluetongues post, I agreed with every word as well...
 

Klaery

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lol watch out he might have a riod rage ;)


Hmmmm have to agree with Tekno on that one... It is very similar. I compete in a tested league but there are members on my team (powerlifting) that compete in the untested league if you know what I mean and... well the bad wrap steroids get is very overrated.
 
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Bluetongue1

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I think that tolerance comes about due to the perspective people apply. If they know someone with a few animals, highly responsible keeper living in the city where any escapes would not establish, they tend to think "what harm can it do?" You need to step back and look at the big picture to see that they are contributing to an undesireable situation.

There are also those who put their own desires ahead of more general needs. All I can say to them is that it wouldn't be illegal if it was alright to do.

I did not mention it earlier but another reality is that the more people there are that flaunt a law, the less enforceable it tends to become which, in turn, can encourage more to flaunt it. It does not help that enforcement is in the hands of an inept set of departments responsible for conservation and management of our wildlife.

Blue
 
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dylan-rocks

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very good read, im quiet shocked but the opinions people have on the subject
 
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Bluetongue1

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Those keeping exotics are fully aware it is illegal. Acceptance or complacency on legal keeper's behalf is unacceptable in my opinion.

I accept the reality of the situation, that once things are here and established in collections there is virtually no chance of eliminating them. However, what can be done is to bring sufficient pressure to bear, by way of busts and significant penalties handed out by the courts, to drive the illegal trade deep underground and keep it there. This will reduce the numbers illegally keeping and therefore the size of the potential market. A reduced market means reduced profit means reduced smuggling in as well as reduced trade in stolen reptiles. Effectively, you can reduce the risks and thefts associated with the illegal reptile trade in this manner.

Sitting on the fence or on your hands won't help.

Blue
 

Manda1032

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and how exactly do you think the exotics got here...by being caught in there own countries and in there own wild then jamed into some one undies do be smuggled over here if thats not mistreatment what is...

Not all come from the wild. Like anyone here would shove a wild carpet in their pants ( Unless that's your thing!) a lot a purchased in the US and brought over. I knew someone who said one corn was smuggled in a fake breast!
 
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