2 snakes dead over night! What could it be?

[Jdawgg910]

As some of you may already know my Darwin looked like it needed a vet check as he had a swollen throat/neck.

He was meant to go to the vet on Saturday, but were found passed away Friday morning on my daily check up. I also found my Children's python had passed away too.

the only time they were together was in this photo. Otherwise they are housed in two different tanks. Could 2 minutes of them being together be enough to spread a possible disease?

I am very upset and frustrated with myself as I have a feeling my Darwin may of also had a fatal contagious snake disease as well which also took the life of my Children's python of 4 years old who had regurgitated his rat that same day. Both of which appeared fine at 9pm thursday night when I last check on them.

I have heard of a snake disease outbreak in QLD, but is it possible my snakes could of got it too? I'm assuming it was a disease as it was all of a sudden and both died the same night. I don't use a heater and keep them outside, but the out side temps were only 20 degrees at the lowest, so them freezing can't be the cause as it was humid too.

The last meal my Darwin had was Wednesday morning and my children's ate Thursday morning, which I found the regurgitated rat at night. (Wasn't there in the afternoon.) so I don't think it was food poisoning. Both snakes were behaving normally when I last checked them too, flickering their tongues, breathing normally and their eyes didn't look any different.

Also flaming or abusing me saying I didn't care for my snakes isn't gonna help, I already feel bad enough. I already took advice by booking a vet check up ASAP, unfortunately it was already too late.

photos were taken sometime last week.

 

[riotgirlckb]

so sorry to hear about your loss mate that is tragic sorry I can't be of help

 

[bohdi13]

sorry to hear man, especially when they are both lovely little snakes. i was hoping that they got to a vet in time when i was the first to tell you, i know it can be hard to get there straight away but it needs to be ASAP. did your childrens get that bad shed off?

 

[RedFox]

It is unlikely anyone here will be able to give you a definite answer. If you really want to know, take them to the vet to get an autopsy done. If you go down that route store the bodies in the fridge.

I am very sorry for your loss. It must be difficult losing two beautiful animals so suddenly.

I think this should serve as a reminder to us all, how important quarantine really is.

 

[saintanger]

sorry about your loss, get an autopsy done. the vet might be able to tell you what they died from after an autopsy.

 

[Jdawgg910]

When I put him back, I put him in his water bowl and then he rubbed against his rock getting his shed caught which came off. Usually he has one piece sheds, but this time of may been a sign he may of been ill?

 

[Jdawgg910]

As for the bodies, I placed them in a box and buried them deep in the garden. I never knew you could get an autopsy for a snake.

 

[longqi]

Most snake diseases strike very slowly because of their metabolism
My guess would be the food because crook tucker can and does kill them fairly quickly

Snakes only regurgitate because of three reasons
Handling after eating
Temperatures too low for too long
Bad food

Only way to be certain is the autopsy already suggested
Very good vet near Palmerston

 

[Jdawgg910]

Only way to be certain is the autopsy already suggested
Very good vet near Palmerston

The Ark vet was where I was booked to take them as Tracey from Hibiscus and Sarah from GNT's also recommend me there too. Unless there's another reptile vet?

 

[Darlyn]

Nope, the Ark bloke is supposed to be good. Sorry for your loss. Where were you getting your rats from?

 

[Jdawgg910]

I bought it from Hibicus originally, but it was one of my smaller breeding rats I fed as they were low on his size rat. He ate it live, which he has done before fine, but I always stay and watch out I case things get ugly, which never happened thank God. I did bath the rat with just a bucket and tap water then quarantined it in a separate tank for 2 days only feeding it carrots with water.

The fuzzy I bought frozen though and defrosted it straight after I bought it. (Left it on a paper towel on the bonnet of my car for 5 minutes to warm it a little.)

 

[Asharee133]

My friend had that recently happen. Turned out to be a bad rat

 

[jacevy]

Sorry for your loss

 

[Trimeresurus]

What's up with that shed?

 

[andynic07]

Sorry to hear about your loss and I hope you find out what happened. How long did you have your Darwin for and what quarantine procedure did you follow?

 

[turtle]

I had a snake that had the exact symptoms.. It sounds like mouth rot(google it for more info). It's highly contagious and the bacteria associated to this can spread at an alarming rate. It can be cause by as little as a rat foot scraping the inside of the snakes throat which is why it usually starts with a swollen neck.
Its one of those things that can easily be fixed but only if something is done very early. If you open the mouth of the snakes there usually is a cheese like substance which is only half of the problem.
If you have any other snakes I would F10 there enclosures and definitely the ones the snakes died in.
Its an unfortunate thing that sometimes can't be prevented. Ever since it happened to me I've always fed my snakes smaller feeds as a preventative.
Hope this helps.
Cheers, Dan

 

[Pythoninfinite]

I bought it from Hibicus originally, but it was one of my smaller breeding rats I fed as they were low on his size rat. He ate it live, which he has done before fine, but I always stay and watch out I case things get ugly, which never happened thank God. I did bath the rat with just a bucket and tap water then quarantined it in a separate tank for 2 days only feeding it carrots with water.

The fuzzy I bought frozen though and defrosted it straight after I bought it. (Left it on a paper towel on the bonnet of my car for 5 minutes to warm it a little.)

Two snakes dead on the same night, when they were feeding and seemingly healthy a day or two before, points directly to a management problem, not disease. From what you have said about the circumstances under which you managed these animals, there are serious shortcomings in your understanding of what they need to remain alive and healthy. Something catastrophic has happened which killed them both at the same time.

You say they were kept outside - in what? You say the temps have only gone down to 20C - is that the weather bureau reading or the reading in and around their enclosures? You have to know what is happening at the actual enclosure to be able to say for sure what the temps have been. If they were in tubs, how HOT did they get the day before they died? Longqi has mentioned a few reasons why snakes regurg, overheating after a feed is another one, when the food rots before they can digest it. Snakes kept outside, or subject to ambient temperatures, need access to many different microhabitats to be able to manage their life processes. If you keep them in a box outside, they will die from any one of many problems this can cause. It may work for a while, but something will eventually happen which will compromise the animal.

The puffy throat could be as simple as an impending shed, sometimes the nostrils block up a bit prior to shedding. It may be incipient RI, but the fact that the animal fed makes this unlikely. There is no sign of "mouthrot" (infectious stomatitis) despite the comment from another member, and similarly, refusal to feed is often the first indicator of this problem. Snakes suffer damage to their mouths and gums frequently when capturing prey, but it's only when their health is compromised by poor husbandry that this leads to dangerous infection, and often stomatitis goes hand-in-hand with RI in poorly managed animals, and both are usually associated with inadequate temperatures.

Brings me to the matter of feeding live rodents to your snake - why do you do that? Despite your being close by "in case things get ugly," you won't save your snake from a broken jaw or a bite through the throat if the rodent gets in first. Live feeding of animals which will take dead prey is for losers, and the snake is often the loser. Why would you wash a rat and then feed it only carrots for 2 days prior to using it for food? What does this achieve?

I've raised a few points for you to consider here, but it's my well considered guess that it is something you have done which has killed your animals - two otherwise healthy snakes dying overnight is not disease related.

Jamie

 

[Jdawgg910]

Two snakes dead on the same night, when they were feeding and seemingly healthy a day or two before, points directly to a management problem, not disease. From what you have said about the circumstances under which you managed these animals, there are serious shortcomings in your understanding of what they need to remain alive and healthy. Something catastrophic has happened which killed them both at the same time.

You say they were kept outside - in what? You say the temps have only gone down to 20C - is that the weather bureau reading or the reading in and around their enclosures? You have to know what is happening at the actual enclosure to be able to say for sure what the temps have been. If they were in tubs, how HOT did they get the day before they died? Longqi has mentioned a few reasons why snakes regurg, overheating after a feed is another one, when the food rots before they can digest it. Snakes kept outside, or subject to ambient temperatures, need access to many different microhabitats to be able to manage their life processes. If you keep them in a box outside, they will die from any one of many problems this can cause. It may work for a while, but something will eventually happen which will compromise the animal.

The puffy throat could be as simple as an impending shed, sometimes the nostrils block up a bit prior to shedding. It may be incipient RI, but the fact that the animal fed makes this unlikely. There is no sign of "mouthrot" (infectious stomatitis) despite the comment from another member, and similarly, refusal to feed is often the first indicator of this problem. Snakes suffer damage to their mouths and gums frequently when capturing prey, but it's only when their health is compromised by poor husbandry that this leads to dangerous infection, and often stomatitis goes hand-in-hand with RI in poorly managed animals, and both are usually associated with inadequate temperatures.

Brings me to the matter of feeding live rodents to your snake - why do you do that? Despite your being close by "in case things get ugly," you won't save your snake from a broken jaw or a bite through the throat if the rodent gets in first. Live feeding of animals which will take dead prey is for losers, and the snake is often the loser. Why would you wash a rat and then feed it only carrots for 2 days prior to using it for food? What does this achieve?

I've raised a few points for you to consider here, but it's my well considered guess that it is something you have done which has killed your animals - two otherwise healthy snakes dying overnight is not disease related.

Jamie

The Children's was in the 2ft tank and the Darwin kept in a 1ft glass click clack beginners reptile tank. Both with sufficient room to stretch from one end to the other, hides, water and hollow logs. Had a mix of sand on one end and wooden shavings that I use for my rats. (Fresh of course.)

The tempreature I went off was the BOM's, but humidity I could feel as I slept with the aircon off.

I only fed my children's live rodents. Maybe one every 2 months. (Ate every fortnight, so 1/4 meals were live.) The Darwin only ever ate thawed pinkies and fuzzies. (Which I would of thought pinkies and fuzzies don't have nails developed long enoough yet?)

I do appreciate your opinions and all.

I still have 1 more Darwin, but I have done the following and cleaned out and sprayed his and the other tanks with F10. (I used dissinfectant and glass cleaner in the deceased tanks.) I took it to the vet and it is healthy and fine, but as a precautionary I will now house him in doors and see how he goes.

 

[andynic07]

The Children's was in the 2ft tank and the Darwin kept in a 1ft glass click clack beginners reptile tank. Both with sufficient room to stretch from one end to the other, hides, water and hollow logs. Had a mix of sand on one end and wooden shavings that I use for my rats. (Fresh of course.)

The tempreature I went off was the BOM's, but humidity I could feel as I slept with the aircon off.

I only fed my children's live rodents. Maybe one every 2 months. (Ate every fortnight, so 1/4 meals were live.) The Darwin only ever ate thawed pinkies and fuzzies. (Which I would of thought pinkies and fuzzies don't have nails developed long enoough yet?)

I do appreciate your opinions and all.

I still have 1 more Darwin, but I have done the following and cleaned out and sprayed his and the other tanks with F10. (I used dissinfectant and glass cleaner in the deceased tanks.) I took it to the vet and it is healthy and fine, but as a precautionary I will now house him in doors and see how he goes.

I take it that the glass enclosures were not in direct sunlight at all?

 

[phatty]

also if your the guy on gum tree that wants free snakes make sure if you get them they are quarantined as they might bring in unwanted nasties
also here is a few pics of my our door enclosures


I still need more hides as these is only one at the moment but the coastal doesn't even use it but it is there if it wants