As you said, lets not jump the gut, no one has got any information so far to form an opinion.
Microchipping is DEFINITELY not on! Subcutaneous pit tagging is useless, the tag can be easily removed, that's apart from the aesthetics, and internal microchipping requires surgery under LA - who would pay for it?
I was actually jumping around in my head LOL!.....in regards to microchipping, as I see it as the only real form of certification in the broader sense, as in, animals must be microchipped to leave or enter the country - unless they are going out to Indonesia, or South Africa (off the top of my head)....and in my experience it is as easy as Number=Animal.
So in this "theme" of things, I would regard microchipping as the end result of an established set of definitive protocols to certify a snake as being bona fide.
LA stings like a bitch.....if I was a breeder at your level - it would be my prerogative to ask for a GA for any snake of mine to be done, as IMO a quick GA would and should, be part of the certification protocol.
It's common practice for us to remove the microchip from a zoo-owned snake that has passed away when it is autopsied, and for the vet to write a report on that particular animal - and part of that report is to certify that the snake as described matches the microchip.
Quite an interesting process.
So if you follow my thoughts - this takes the initial breeder certification process to another level.
The trouble with putting out such a banquet in front of me with regard to an actual register, careful and true documentation, DNA testing, microchipping (?) and breeder certification is that in real terms......I've already jumped the gun.
And on another note - what you are doing by fleshing things out with regard to your original question, is both eccentric, and highly intelligent. I just hope that I don't get too fatigued by the end result.
Please use your boggling mind and explain how it will work in detail Michael. You have been mentioning this idea ever since you joined the forum back when your name was 'Craftsman'. This was at least 3 years ago now so why have you not taken it further and got something off the ground? I understand that setting something up like this would take time but I assumed that if it was going to be implemented, it would taken off by now.
So basically, after the 'certified' animal leaves the sellers collection, future buyers only have their 'word' that they are from the certified 'pure' stock? If you will not be using pit tagging, micro chipping or using DNA to prove the animal in mention, than how the hell are you going to prove the animal is what it is????????????????????
A photograph will not suffice for a few reasons I can think of off the top of my head.
1) People have enough trouble posting clear photos for animals for sale as it is.
2) Animals like your Chondros, pattern less Childreni, Olives, Water Pythons, Adders PLUS nearly every other standard, non morph snake in Australia. MOST of the snakes show that little difference in photographs, they simply could not be used for I.Ding an animal.
So basically, all you can do is take the sellers word for what they are selling which is how it works now.
If it could work, I would be happy to support the idea but after hearing about it for three years from a few different people, can someone please explain IN DETAIL how it will be 100% guaranteed to work and the animals in mention can never be questioned. I genuinely want to know how you mob are going to achieve this?
Another problem I can see is that sellers who already have animals in their collections that they want to add as pure stock on the register (like your Green Pythons), how would they do it? The only animals that could be used if this was to be taken serious would be animals from licensed takers like Dave Mackintosh, Garry Davies and David Reed.
For other species that are not allowed to be taken from the wild legally, all that is to be relied on is the seller’s word, much like it is today.
Once again, I must stress that if this ever gets off the ground and accepted by the majority of Australian herps, than I will eat my words and apologise to anyone who thinks that I am being an unrealistic downer. I can see a few people thinking it is a good idea however unless I am missing the method of proof that is easy, fool proof and 100% guaranteed, I doubt it will be widely recognised.
VERY good fodder for setting up a system that should have NO loopholes.
And you should be turning your energy into something more than suggesting that only wild-caught animals are bona fide, as this process in and of itself is open to debate when you consider the can of worms that would open up should any Tom, Dick or Harry be able to collect other than the well-known people you mentioned??
And I totally agree with you as to photographic evidence - it should only be used as a last resort - which is why it would be good to have plenty of alternatives. Have you any??
Now heres a thought
If we cross a jag with a merino we can get a wooly snake with ears whose shed skin is worth good money
Simply use ear tags then
problem solved
Just go right out there......and lets talk about the NLIS ear tag system that was introduced for the sale and breeding of cattle here in Australia. The system is totally able to be worked around.
Did you know that a purebred Angus cow can have a calf that resembles a Brangus?? True !!
As long as the paperwork is filled out correctly by the farmer (breeder) that calf will be around the same dressed weight,exhibit the same carcass composition, fibre characteristics and metabolic enzyme activities as a pure bred Angus.
So, your suggestion about crossing jags with merinos wouldn't work, as ear tags have proven themselves to be only as good as the ears they are hanging from, and some of the progeny might not have ears.
There's my thought.
Other than being someone who has been around in herps for a long time, and having daily access to more freaky out-crosses than us, where do you see loopholes cropping up, or being taken advantage of if a (purely voluntary I'm thinking atm) system was put in place here?
Do you think - as I am starting to, that the real value in snakes will be their certifiable heritage?
