Would they just keep on eating?

[guzzo]

Just a discussion on the feeding of snakes.

As a rule I feed my 14 mnth old Darwins every 6-7 days and feed them again after they poop.

I have been told that if you feed you snakes too much and they grow too fast they can have all sorts of problems so I try to make it so they are shedding no sooner than 6 weeks.

A day or so after I have fed them they are usually out hunting which indicates to me they are still hungry and would happily take more food if offered.

A Farmer friend of mine had a grain shed at Dalby Qld which had several carpets living in it and they were very big and healthy looking.

There were always countless mice for them to eat so I was wondering in this circumstance would wild snakes in environments with an over abundance of prey get fat and have health problems or would they self moderate their food or just keep eating.

I suppose a wild snake would get more exercise and the food would be leaner.

Anyhow what are your thoughts??

 

[Reffy]

Hi, most snakes will keeping eating if you keep offering it to them but this can cause there body to out grow the head causing problems when feeding when they are older...
I feed my snakes once a week unless the are an adult or I'm planning on breeding them.
What are you feeding him?
How big is he?
Also how big is the thicker part of his body?

If you are underfeed him he may still be hungry... (so you don't get flamed i would post answer to questions)

Hope this heaps

 

[GeckoJosh]

Has the pin head theory ever actually been proven?
If it has I would love to see the evidence behind it

Josh

 

[pythons73]

Just think big carpets that were in the shed eating mice,thats hardly a snack for them.That is one of the main problems with captive reptiles-overfed.Snakes are oppunistic feeders and i would think they would eat when food is available,in saying that a big carpet thats just eating a possum-smallish wallaby etc wouldnt be concerned about another meal until its digested the other already in the gut.

 

[Reffy]

I am unsure just what i have been told but other herpers...
And i don't see how you would ever prove it without endangering the animals welfare...

 

[GeckoJosh]

I am unsure just what i have been told but other herpers...
And i don't see how you would ever prove it without endangering the animals welfare...

Im sure a member on here said his University performed of study on "power-feeding" pythons, I cant for the life of me remember who though

 

[saximus]

Has the pin head theory ever actually been proven?
If it has I would love to see the evidence behind it

Josh

I'd think it hasn't been proven since people powerfeed their animals all the time. Surely from all of those cases there would be a few on here showing the potential problems with doing it

 

[guzzo]

Hi, most snakes will keeping eating if you keep offering it to them but this can cause there body to out grow the head causing problems when feeding when they are older...
I feed my snakes once a week unless the are an adult or I'm planning on breeding them.
What are you feeding him?
How big is he?
Also how big is the thicker part of his body?

If you are underfeed him he may still be hungry... (so you don't get flamed i would post answer to questions)

Hope this heaps

I feed all mine once every 6-7 days all shedding around the 7-8 week mark with one that shed after 5 weeks so i cut him back. he has shed every 7 weeks for the last 3 sheds since. ...so all snakes are under controll. My biggest 14 mnth was 165cm last shed and he has a big head he has good muscle tone throughout his body too.

The farm shed i mentioned was crazy, you would lift a sac and the ground would move with mice. a snake could catch them without trying. I was wondering in circumstances like this (despite being a small meal) just how much they would eat and surley they would grow too fast. There were heaps of eastern browns there too.

 

[girdheinz]

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/...ildrens-python-research-prelim-results-84052/

This study continued for 2 further seasons, however you wont find the results on here. You will note the growth rates on high and low feeding treatment animals and that there was no effects on morphometrics (ie no pinhead syndrome)

pythonpac animal ethics committee determine what is safe and unsafe and they set the limits of feed intake in this case.

I will tell you that the conclusions from the first 18 months of data show a great deal of self regulation in food intake. They are opportunists in the wild and will gorge to unbelievable limits when available. There is no conclusive proof as to whether this feeding has any effect on health at all. It is also unrealistic to carry out long term statistically scientifically accurate studies for the natural life of a snake (could be 20 years plus). As to today none of the adult pythons in this study have suffered any abnormal ill effects and many have now re-produced for a 3rd time.

Gird

 

[GeckoJosh]

Thanks Gird, thats some really cool info

 

[guzzo]

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/...ildrens-python-research-prelim-results-84052/

This study continued for 2 further seasons, however you wont find the results on here. You will note the growth rates on high and low feeding treatment animals and that there was no effects on morphometrics (ie no pinhead syndrome)

pythonpac animal ethics committee determine what is safe and unsafe and they set the limits of feed intake in this case.

I will tell you that the conclusions from the first 18 months of data show a great deal of self regulation in food intake. They are opportunists in the wild and will gorge to unbelievable limits when available. There is no conclusive proof as to whether this feeding has any effect on health at all. It is also unrealistic to carry out long term statistically scientifically accurate studies for the natural life of a snake (could be 20 years plus). As to today none of the adult pythons in this study have suffered any abnormal ill effects and many have now re-produced for a 3rd time.

Gird

Thanks, very interesting.....

.I also have seen big carpets lurking arround fruit bat collonies and thought they would never be without food and wondered how often they ate as food was abundant and there for the taking whenever they felt like it.

For me it makes sence that it would be in the best intrest for a small wild hatchling python to eat as much as it could as often as it could as the quicker it reaches adult size the fewer predators it would have.

I was told that domestic food items are much fattier than wild prey and therefore it is much easier for a snake to become obese.

 

[-Katana-]

I'm just wondering about the size of the ranges these animals have in the wild and the amount of exercise they are able to get. Surely a wild animal wouldn't be as prone to obesity because of this and the natural "feast and famine" fluctuations in the availability of food sources that force the animal to use up it's stored reserves?

 

[Wookie]

I don't believe in this pinhead syndrome. But I do wholeheartedly believe powerfeeding can cause obesity which can lead to a myriad of health issues.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

I feed all mine once every 6-7 days all shedding around the 7-8 week mark with one that shed after 5 weeks so i cut him back. he has shed every 7 weeks for the last 3 sheds since. ...so all snakes are under controll. My biggest 14 mnth was 165cm last shed and he has a big head he has good muscle tone throughout his body too.

The farm shed i mentioned was crazy, you would lift a sac and the ground would move with mice. a snake could catch them without trying. I was wondering in circumstances like this (despite being a small meal) just how much they would eat and surley they would grow too fast. There were heaps of eastern browns there too.

It won't matter a jot whether you snake is fed weekly, every 2 weeks or even every 4 weeks, all that will happen is the growth rate will be less when you feed less often. Shedding is as much governed by hormonal influences as it is by food intake - your micromanaging of feeding regimes to ensure shedding is the way you want it is just that - just an artefact of the way you think things should be, it's not going to improve your animal's health.

Jamie

 

[hugsta]

I think you will find 'pinhead syndrome' as such, is more a case of people feeding lots of small prey items instead of one large one. There was a study being done on this that showed slight variation and the animals being fed a larger prey item had a head that grew consistantly with the body, although there was not really that much difference. As for 'powerfeeding', I have a coastal I fed up pretty hard as a hatchy and she is still breeding every year and is around 9yrs of age now and still going strong. I believe you cannot over feed a hatchy up to around 2 yrs of age as they put all excess energy into growth, the only time obesity comes into play is when this growth rate slows down and you don't back off your feeding to suit. I have never seen an obese juvenile python...ever.

 

[guzzo]

It won't matter a jot whether you snake is fed weekly, every 2 weeks or even every 4 weeks, all that will happen is the growth rate will be less when you feed less often. Shedding is as much governed by hormonal influences as it is by food intake - your micromanaging of feeding regimes to ensure shedding is the way you want it is just that - just an artefact of the way you think things should be, it's not going to improve your animal's health.

Jamie

So Jamie a good sized meal every 7 days and not worry about the shed thing? or is it better to have no set feeding rule and feed them on irregular times? Anyhow i suppose if all my snakes are feeding well, shedding well and are healthy who cares.......i think I am overthinking this too much

I also suppose with captive pythons the majority appear to feed rats but in the wild they would eat all sorts of things.

It is a bit like wondering about how much to feed my dog and comparing to how a wild dog lives.....same animal but totally different situation.

 

[hugsta]

Feeding a younger python regularly will certainly cause it to shed regularly and this will be the main cause of shedding at a youg age. Jamie is also correct as when they get older they will shed coming out of season, shed before laying eggs etc and obvioulsy shed with continued growth. Exactly, if all your animals are doing the right things like you mention, who cares really.

You are keeping you snake in captivity, there is nothing wrong feeding it regularly and this usually works well for most people. ie feed snake 7pm every Wed night.

No not really, your dog is warm blooded and you cannot compare them to cold blooded animals. Feed your dog as much as it can eat and will definately end up fat and obese, much easier than a python,

 

[guzzo]

Feeding a younger python regularly will certainly cause it to shed regularly and this will be the main cause of shedding at a youg age. Jamie is also correct as when they get older they will shed coming out of season, shed before laying eggs etc and obvioulsy shed with continued growth. Exactly, if all your animals are doing the right things like you mention, who cares really.

You are keeping you snake in captivity, there is nothing wrong feeding it regularly and this usually works well for most people. ie feed snake 7pm every Wed night.

No not really, your dog is warm blooded and you cannot compare them to cold blooded animals. Feed your dog as much as it can eat and will definately end up fat and obese, much easier than a python,

Thanks Hugsta, Hey do you know if there are any good documentories made on wild Australian Pythons?

 

[girdheinz]

.

It is a bit like wondering about how much to feed my dog and comparing to how a wild dog lives.....same animal but totally different situation.

You have hit the nail directly on the head. It totally depends on your motivation for keeping and or breeding the animal in question. You always get pro and against arguments relating to the health issues. Largely based on no science at all.

 

[Waterrat]

Perhaps it's not a good idea to generalize. Take for example fast moving elapids and something like a lazy GTP - entirely different when it comes to food intake v exercise. Chappell Island tiger snakes gorge themselves for two months then starve for the rest of the year. Hibernation is another factor.

In captivity, I firmly believe that obesity reduces reproductive potential / appetite in adults snakes.