Frog and snake ID

Discussion in 'Reptile and Amphibian Identification' started by Sleazy.P.Martini, Jan 5, 2013.

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  1. Sleazy.P.Martini

    Sleazy.P.Martini Well-Known Member

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    Hey guys, sorry about the lowsy photos, the snake was sent to me via phone from someone else and I was drunk when I took the one of the frog.

    Anyway the frog was found in Townsville, and the snake found North shore Sydney, Hornsby to be precise. Thanks IMG_20121231_200158.jpg 270389_507218875967056_1147232079_n-1.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 10, 2013
  2. jedi_339

    jedi_339 Well-Known Member

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    The Frog looks to me like an ornate burrowing frog Platyplectrum ornatum.

    Not going to have a guess at the snake Identification though, I can't see enough details.
     
  3. GeckPhotographer

    GeckPhotographer Very Well-Known Member

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    Jedi is correct with the frog ID, as he says it would be very had to ID the snake off that photo, there are many many candidates. Any more information about the snake? Pattern etc?
     
  4. Sleazy.P.Martini

    Sleazy.P.Martini Well-Known Member

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    Only info I got was shiny brown near the head, darker as it got further down toward tail, and no red on the sides or belly. Either way I've convinced her to leave them alone(she seen a few lately) and she days she wouldn't dream of killing it so 1 nil to reason so far lol

    - - - Updated - - -

    If anyone knows any catchers round the area can you PM contact details? Just so she has some options
     
  5. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 Guest

    Options (possibilities) removed - inappropriate given the photo quality. My apologies.

    Warn your friend she cannot afford to take any chances. Tell them to dress appropriately in case they accidentally step on one – covered footwear (preferably ankle length boots), thick woolly socks to calf height and loose-leg long pants of heavy material.

    Blue
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2013
  6. Sleazy.P.Martini

    Sleazy.P.Martini Well-Known Member

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    Cheers blue, I already told her to tread carefully, much like terrorism be alert but not alarmed lol. I pointed out most snakes are out at night, when her son is asleep, turns out the several snakes she's seen were out at night. I'm just glad I convinced her snakes are OK, and her and several of her friends have realized killing snakes is a silly idea
     
  7. JasonL

    JasonL Almost Legendary

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    Snake looks like a small eyed or swampie, though impossible to say without a closer photo
     
  8. Australis

    Australis Almost Legendary

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    No Stephens in Hornsby.
     
  9. Egernia

    Egernia Active Member

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    Assuming that it is a local to Hornsby then it is going to be either a Common Brown, Golden Crowned, or Yellow Faced Whip Snake. Although not a great photo my money is on Common Brown based upon the size in comparison to the gloves and the body shape which is not really inline with a whip snake. The lady is welcome to contact me via our website should she have any further problems with the snake and I will pop around and sort it out for her and then we will all know for sure what it is!
     
  10. jase75

    jase75 Well-Known Member

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    From that pic the snake looks like a Small Eyed. Other option would be a Swampie.

    Sent from my XT925 using Tapatalk 2
     
  11. GeckPhotographer

    GeckPhotographer Very Well-Known Member

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    From the picture the snake does not look at all banded. From the description the most likely candidates seem to be Small Eyed or Marsh. It's possible it is an Eastern Brown, but size comparison to gloves and being out at night make me think this a less likely option.
     
  12. eipper

    eipper Very Well-Known Member APS Veteran

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    To the op
    The frog is Platyplectrum ornatum, the Ornate Burrowing Frog.

    The snake is from that photo Unidentifiable.

    While I have my thoughts I am not willing to guess the indentity. You either know it or you don't its that simple.

    Tell your friend that snakes are commonly occur in all suburbs of Sydney, they are just very effective at remaining hidden. When walking around at night try to wear closed in footwear and use a torch to try to avoid an accidental bite.

    cheers
    Scott
     
  13. Stuart

    Stuart Site Admin Staff Member

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    Ladies and Gents

    Scotts post above is a golden example of Snake (or any) Identification. When in doubt or not enough information is provided, don't guess, the consequences can outweigh the realities.
     
  14. reb01

    reb01 Suspended Banned

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    Thats exactly correct..too many ppl jump at conclusions saying it could be this-could be that..Bottom line is it could be ANYTHING..without a decent photo NO-ONE can say for certain what it is...We can only take a stab in the dark
     
  15. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 Guest

    That’s great. Really good to hear.

    Blue
     
  16. Egernia

    Egernia Active Member

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    Sure it is great if people can post clear pics that leave no doubt as to what the pic is of but the reality is that is not always possible. If they had a clear pic of what it is then they most likely would not need to come here and ask as Google pics would probably give them an answer. I for one would hate to see an ID thread go unanswered based upon the fact that the photo quality is not good enough!

    Of course no one wants the wrong ID given but as can be seen in this thread no one has suggested a definitive as to what it is but instead a guide to what it could be. To my mind this is valuable information that the OP can then take away and look into further and may even make a positive ID possible. The alternative suggestion that no one provide any information seems to me to be counterproductive and certainly less valuable to an OP than the information that has been made available to them by the answers above.

    I understand that in the past some of these threads have generated answers that were way off and just uninformed. With the exception of some of the earlier species suggestions that have now been removed from this thread I think the other suggestions made here are all very reasonable possibilities and I would not be at all surprised if the snake turned out to be one of the species named in this thread.

    The location is very specific and to anyone familiar with the removal of snakes in suburbs around Sydney that little bit of info is very valuable in identifying what it is likely or not likely to be. Sometimes individuals with regional knowledge can know things that the 'experts' don't know and I think it would be a loss to the board if their informed opnions were discounted.
     
  17. eipper

    eipper Very Well-Known Member APS Veteran

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    Egernia,

    Ok so by your logic you are saying Pseudonaja. Stephen is suggesting Cryptophis. If the op's pet is bitten by this snake, the I'd depending on if you go with your guess or Stephen's changes the type of av administered.

    There is no shame in being not able to identify something from a poor pic.
    Cheers
    scott
     
  18. Egernia

    Egernia Active Member

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    Scott I think you are missing my point but in the scenario you pose I don't see how a thread with no replies due to poor photo quality is going to place the OP in a better position than the current thread with educated opinions as to likely possibilities.

    The reality is that in a bite situation, be it pet or person, no medical professional is going to take a the word of a lay person and administer anitvenene as per their ID of the snake so I don't see any danger from this thread in that case. If there is no positive ID available i.e. specimen in hand, then a polyvalent is going to be administered until a test shows what it was that caused the bite.

    I don't see anyone in the thread suggesting that the OP should go and pick up the snake. I also don't see anyone suggesting a positive ID. I do see some informed opinions each of which are distinct possibles based upon the photo and the location.

    As I mentioned earlier I entirely agree with the general consensus that we don't need random suggestions thrown up especially when those suggestions are clearly not the snake in the picture and / or clearly not in the location that the snake has been found. But I don't have a problem with informed opinion as to what the animal in the picture is likely to be provided that some reasoning is provided and to my knowledge that is within the rules of this particular forum.

    You are entirely welcome to choose not to express your opinion as to what a particular snake may be if you are not entirely sure what it is, but I believe that other members have an equal right to express their opinions as to what a snake likely may be if they feel confident that they know what it is and if they can provide reasoning for their suggestions.

    I placed the word expert in quotes in my earlier post not to mock those who are considered resident experts on this forum but because I am not so sure that any one is an expert about every snake in every situation so apologies if that was misconstrued as being a dig at any one in particular. I believe that there is a lot of expertise on this forum from non-regulars and I think it is a shame if those opinions are overlooked just because those people are not regulars!
     
  19. eipper

    eipper Very Well-Known Member APS Veteran

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    Egernia,

    I deliberately said pets, as for a person a svdk would be administered. The difference in cost for a vial of Polyvalent vs mono is huge. At the end of the the day the call is place with the owner of that pet whether or not a/v is administered. At this point the person who has seen the snake will be making the call.

    I disagree that an educated guess is better than nothing.....at least with nothing you not going to be wrong - you may not help the person but you will not lead them down the wrong path either, all the while thinking they know the answer.

    The opinion of everyone on a site is important. It would seem that you and I disagree on this point and that's fine.

    If I may I would like to offer a couple of points to your initial id post

    Assuming that it is a local to Hornsby then it is going to be either a Common Brown, Golden Crowned, or Yellow Faced Whip Snake. Although not a great photo my money is on Common Brown based upon the size in comparison to the gloves and the body shape which is not really inline with a whip snake.


    The body shape of both Demansia and Pseudonaja are more or less identical, these two genera are that closely related that they were thought to be in the same genus for many years.

    Cheers,
    Scott
     
  20. Egernia

    Egernia Active Member

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    Scott I agree that we are probably just going to have to disagree on this issue. I understand that you like to be able to positively ID a snake in question and I agree that ultimately a positive ID from a photo would be great. We disagree in cases where the photo does not permit a positive ID I personally see no problem with a list of likely suspects being compiled as long as the reasons for those inclusions are given and of course as long as they are reasonable inclusions based upon the information that is available. Once again the very specific piece of information for me from the OP was the specific suburb.

    Perhaps procedures are different in different places around Australia but in my experience the medical professional makes the call as to what a/v is administered so I disagree that your scenario is likely. But lets use your scenario to illustrate my whole point here.

    1. If no ID's are suggested due to a poor quality pic the OP has no info other than what they know i.e. brown coloured snake, so they head off to the vet and state that their dog was bitten by a brown snake (perhaps blisfully unaware that there are a whole range of brown coloured snakes other than a brown snake) which I am sure happens quite a lot but is clearly not ideal. OR

    2. If a list of possibles is given but no positive ID possible then the OP heads off to the vet and says my dog has been bitten by a brown coloured snake and here is a list of possibles that it seems it could be.

    It is my view that in both cases no monovalent would be given unless the vet has a positive ID but even if you are right I don't see a major advantage over example 1 than example 2 but I can see some advantages in the OP being at least aware that there are a range of possible brown coloured snakes in their area.

    Scott there are five answers so are you suggesting that the OP is going to choose one over the others. Well I suppose he could but then again I suppose he could decide for himself that your positive ID on another snake is wrong and go with his gut feeling. We can't control what people do with the information provide but we can provide the best information possible in an effort to help them and I believe this is what has been done on this thread and exactly why I raised my concerns with some members disparaging other members for their valid opinions.

    I don't think this should be discussed on the genus level as there is too much possible variation among the species in the relative genus. In relation to the two specific species in question the body shape of an Eastern Brown and Yellow-faced Whip Snake in the Sydney locale are very different. With colouration aside the latter has a much larger head in proportion to neck, much larger eyes, and a longer thinner tail as well as an overall thinner girth along its body. All of those factors are proportional but to the experienced eye the overall body shape of the two species is quite different. The OP's photo is not clear enough to distinguish the above with any certainty but I have an opinion as to what I think as do you. Out of curiosity I would be interested in your opinion on the species in the photo if you want to PM me.
     
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